What about cloning?


Cloning, as envisaged by the myopic view of empiricism (truth
can only be obtained through the five senses or extentsions thereof)
shackles the arrogant humanist conjectorer, and is the failure of these humanists
to correctly assess the correct makeup of a human being (or a
plant or animal for that matter). The near death experience proves
to all but bigots, that there is a spirit body which is the catalyzing
energy (see the answer to the question on evolution)
which effectualizes the complex organization of the body--which is the
"spark-plug" for the engine of the corporeal
body, the departure of which allows entropy to disorganize that
body in death, saith the Lord. The point is that cloning merely
produces an identical twin at best, not a true clone, because
the spirit which inhabits that body is not even acknowledged to
exist by science, much less reproduced.
(See why evolution is not a valid explanation of the origins of life).


James 2:26
For as
the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Dolly's creator says no to human cloning


Scientist warns of high toll of miscarriages and deformities
Special report: the ethics of genetics
James Meek, science correspondent
Thursday March 29, 2001
The Guardian
Ian Wilmut, the scientist who led the team behind Dolly the sheep, launched a passionate attack yesterday on plans to clone humans, saying it would be "extremely cruel" for the mothers and resultant children.
In an article in the US journal Science, Dr Wilmut denounced the declared aim of the Italian and US fertility specialists Severino Antinori and Panos Zavos to clone humans and enable infertile men to pass on their genes.

In language a world away from the optimism in 1997 at the birth of Dolly, Dr Wilmut warned that four years of experiments on animals had shown the cloning technique to be deeply flawed, exacting a huge toll of miscarriages and deformities.
"There is no reason to believe that the outcomes of attempted human cloning will be any different," he wrote.
The polemic, written jointly with a US biologist, was timed for hearings in the US House of Representatives on human cloning. They are due to take evidence from Mr Zavos and others - including Rael, leader of the Raelian cult, who claims to have met aliens and who plans to beat the Antinori-Zavos partnership.
Since Dolly, scientists have cloned mice, cattle, goats and pigs. Dr Wilmut and Dr Jaenisch point out that very few cloned embryos survive to birth and many of these die shortly after. Survivors are often grotesquely large or have defects.
Dr Wilmut is sceptical of the Zavos-Antinori claim that decades of IVF work helping infertile couples enable them to screen cloned human embryos for defects before they are implanted in the womb.
A normal child has a 50-50 mix of its father's and mother's genes, prepared for their embryonic role in eggs and sperm over months and years. In cloning, the genes are almost entirely from one parent and their calibration is done in minutes.
No IVF clinic has the capability to screen all an embryo's genes for problems, said Dr Wilmut.
He told the Guardian yesterday of a cloned lamb born in December at his institute in Roslin near Edinburgh. "It could run about perfectly normally - but it hyperventilated all the time; it panted night and day. We tried to treat it, but in the end decided it was kinder to put it down.
"What would Mr Antinori do if he produced a cloned child like that?
"Attempting to clone a human would be extremely cruel for the woman and children involved, and there could be a backlash against valuable research into cloning to create cells for therapeutic purposes."
Dr Wilmut's decision to enter the debate may see him confront Mr Antinori at a cloning conference in Monte Carlo later this year. He said he thought that another quantum leap, as great as that to create Dolly, was needed to make cloning reliable. That might take 50 years. Even then he would oppose human cloning, on social and ethical grounds.
"A parent of a cloned child would be much more likely than usual to impose their expectations and limitations on the child, because they'll think: 'This child is like me, therefore I know how it's going to behave.' David Beckham's son, Brooklyn, may be under a lot of pressure to become a footballer. But if he was genetically identical to his father, that pressure would be even greater."

 
Sunday March 25 04:55 PM EST
Researchers Find Big Risk of Defect in Cloning Animals
By Gina Kolata The New York Times
Four years after researchers cloned a sheep named Dolly, scientists say evidence is mounting that creating healthy animals through cloning is more difficult than they expected.
Four years after researchers in Scotland startled the world by announcing that they had cloned a sheep named Dolly, scientists say evidence is mounting that creating healthy animals through cloning is more difficult than they had expected.
The clones that have been produced, they say, often have problems severe enough developmental delays, heart defects, lung problems and malfunctioning immune systems to give pause to anyone thinking of cloning a human being. In one example that seems like science fiction come true, some cloned mice that appeared normal suddenly, as young adults, grew grotesquely fat.
It is not that one particular thing goes wrong or one specific aspect of development goes awry, researchers say. Rather, leading cloning experts and developmental biologists said in recent interviews, the cloning process seems to create random errors in the expression of individual genes. Those errors can produce any number of unpredictable problems, at any time in life.
Before Dolly's debut in 1997, scientists thought mammals could not be cloned. But now they have cloned not only sheep but also mice, cows, pigs and goats. With mice, they have even made clones of clones on down for six generations. Dolly is apparently normal. Two infertility specialists recently announced that they wanted to clone humans.
Initial fears that clones would age rapidly or develop cancer turned out to be unfounded, scientists said. But as scientists gained more experience, and tried to discern why efforts so often ended in failure, new questions about the safety of cloning arose. Fewer than 3 percent of all cloning efforts succeed.
In cloning, scientists slip a cell from an adult into an egg with its genetic material removed. The egg then reprograms the adult cell's genes so that they are ready to direct the development of an embryo, then a fetus, then a newborn that is genetically identical to the adult whose cell was used to start the process. No one knows how the egg reprograms an adult cell's genes, but that, scientists think, is the source of the cloning calamities that can occur. The problem, they say, seems to be that an egg must do a task in minutes or hours that normally takes months or years. In the months it takes sperm to mature, their genes are being reprogrammed. The same thing happens in eggs, where over years they slowly mature in the ovaries. And this reprogramming must be perfect, scientists say, or individual genes can go amiss at any time in development or later life.
"With cloning, you are asking an egg to reprogram in minutes or, at most, in hours," said Dr. Rudolph Jaenisch, a professor of biology at the Whitehead Institute at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "That's where the major problem is."
All the evidence so far, scientists say, indicates that the breathtakingly rapid reprogramming in cloning can introduce random errors into the clone's DNA, subtly altering individual genes with consequences that can halt embryo or fetal development, killing the clone. Or the gene alterations may be fatal soon after birth or lead to major medical problems later in life.
Some scientists say they shudder to think what might happen if human beings are cloned with today's techniques. While arguments over the ethics of human cloning have dominated the debate, these scientists say the real issue is the likelihood that clones would have genetic abnormalities that could be fatal or subtle but devastating. Until that problem is solved, they say, human cloning should be out of the question.
"It would be morally indefensible," said Dr. Brigid Hogan, a professor of cell biology at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville and an investigator with the Howard Hughes Medical Institute.
Dr. Jaenisch said, "It would be reckless and irresponsible," adding, "What do you do with humans who are born with half a kidney or no immune system?" And, he said, what about the possibility of creating children who appear to be normal but whose genes for neurological development work improperly?
Scientists say they see what appear to be genetic problems almost every time they try to clone.
For example, some mouse clones grow fat, sometimes enormously obese, even though they are given exactly the same amount of food as otherwise identical mice that are not the products of cloning. The fat mice seem fine until an age that would be the equivalent of 30 for a person, when their weight starts to soar, said Dr. Ryuzo Yanagimachi, a University of Hawaii researcher who first cloned these animals and has studied cloning's consequences in them.
Cloned mice also tend to have developmental abnormalities, taking longer to reach milestones like eye opening and ear twitching, Dr. Yanagimachi has found.
Cow clones are often born with enlarged hearts or lungs that do not develop properly, said Dr. Mark E. Westhusin, a cloning expert at Texas A & M University in College Station, Tex. Dolly herself, while apparently healthy, grew fat and had to be separated from the other sheep and put on a diet. But her experience is difficult to interpret since it is hard to draw conclusions about a propensity to obesity from one animal.
The genetic effects most often seem to be fatal at the very start of life, researchers say. With cattle, for example, 100 attempts to create a clone typically result in a single live calf, Dr. Westhusin said.
Cloning mice is more efficient, Dr. Yanagimachi said. But even then, only 2 percent to 3 percent of his attempts succeed.
"Cloned embryos have serious developmental and genetic problems," Dr. Yanagimachi said, which usually kill them before birth. Just after birth, he said, more die, usually of lung problems. He added that inbred strains are much harder to clone than hybrid strains of mice, which makes sense, he said. Inbred animals have much less genetic diversity and so less opportunity to bypass genetic errors than hybrid animals.
Dr. Westhusin says that when he thinks about what happens in cloning, "it's a wonder it works at all."
Scientists knew that every cell in the body has the same genes so, in theory, all the instructions for making a new copy of an adult are present in every cell. But most of the genes in an adult cell, like a skin cell or a brain cell or a liver cell, are silenced. That is why those cells, which have reached their final stage of development, never change. A skin cell does not turn into a heart cell. A brain cell does not turn into a liver cell. And no one expected an egg cell to be able to reprogram such an adult cell, somehow stripping its genes bare of their chemical masks.
Dr. Jaenisch and Dr. Westhusin say that from preliminary molecular biology experiments they are starting to see confirmation of their belief that reprogramming can go awry. They are looking at molecular patterns of gene expression in embryos created by cloning and comparing them to the patterns in embryos created by normal fertilization. Their results so far are consistent with their hypothesis that reprogramming can result in random errors in almost any gene.
But scientists say that every species is different, and it remains possible that it will be easier and safer to clone humans than it is to clone other species.
Mouse eggs are fragile, Dr. Jaenisch said, which may complicate efforts to clone. The solutions used to bathe cattle embryos while they are grown in the laboratory seem to create a large-calf syndrome, resulting in large placentas and huge calves that often die around the time of birth. But clinics for in-vitro fertilization have vast experience in growing human embryos in the laboratory and have perfected the method.
Some like Dr. Richard Rawlins, who directs the in-vitro fertilization laboratory for the Rush Health System in Chicago say it is only a matter of time before someone announces that a human has been cloned. "In my opinion," he said, "all it takes right now is time, money and talent." The only question is who will do it first, he added. It may be the two fertility experts who recently announced that they wanted to clone a human, Dr. Panayiotis Zavos of the Andrology Institute in Lexington, Ky., and Dr. Severino Antinori, a fertility doctor in Rome. Or it may be a relative unknown.
Academic scientists say they would not dare to think of cloning a human at this time. The very experiment would be so controversial that they would become scientific pariahs, said Dr. Alan H. DeCherney, chairman of the department of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of California in Los Angeles. "You'd ruin your career," he said.
In the meantime, the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Oversight Investigations will hold hearings on human cloning on Wednesday, with a witness list including ethicists and scientists.

Revelations of Jesus Christ 14:61-64
They also deny the findings of Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, Dr. Michael Saboam, Urologist, and Dr. Moody, Cardiologist (out of the mouths of two or three witnesses shall every word be established, saith the Lord God of Israel), who have found conclusively to every one but bigots, that there is a separation of the spirit from the body at death. Another evidence, is that if organisms evolved into more advantageous strengths, why do they die? And why is it that when organisms die, does the law of entropy take over, and the corporeal substance dissolves or decays back down from its organized peak, to the dust from whence it cometh, and not before this death, saith the Lord? The answer to this decay at death is that there is a spirit in plants, animals, and man, which separates from the corporeal bodies thereof at death, and
this spirit is the spark, or catalyzing energy which effects this organization to begin with, and keeps this organism intact while still alive, saith the Lord, and without the spirit, the elements of the bodies of these "creations" lose their organization, and hence decay back to their "native element", because the spirit, saith the Lord, is the energy of activation keeping this high degree of organization supplied with the energy needed to maintain its organization to begin with and to remain, intact.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7-8
There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes; We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from
the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Hebrews 12:9
Furthermore we have had
fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and
formeth the spirit of man within him.

I Peter 3:19
By which also he
[Christ] went and preached unto the spirits in prison [the spirit world is divided into paradise and hell];

Revelations of Jesus Christ 3:14
And the resurrection is the reuniting of
the spiritual and the temporal bodies, which bringeth a fullness of joy saith the Lord.

Revelations of Jesus Christ 3:114-117
And now, thus saith the Lord,
all things were created spiritually before they were temporally. And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew was created in the spirit, yea even the earth upon which thou standest had its creation before element combined with matter, saith the Lord God, for the foundation of all matter is spiritual, saith the Lord God. And that spirit which is in man which was with me from the beginning which separateth from the temporal body upon the death thereof, goeth to dwell with other spirits who also move and have their beings, and do not die but go to the spirit of the earth upon which thou standest to await the resurrection, for the resurrection cometh to all men and women except them who cannot repent, even sons of perdition. And they await the resurrection of the just or the unjust [The three degrees of glory: celestial, terrestrial, telestial. See I Corinthians 15:40-42 and D&C 76:69-90.], according to the deeds done in the body, saith the Lord God of Israel, my chosen.

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