Blog--Talking Points -- Van Hale Program
Sunday, January 21, 2007
These are notes on the various points made on the Van Hale program which I have detected to be in error and my comments and source documents proving his statements are contradictory to the Everlasting Gospel. Note: there are so many points that it is difficult to catalog them all.
D&C 10:21
21 And their hearts are corrupt, and full of wickedness and abominations; and they love darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil; therefore they will not ask of me.-- Van Hale never enjoins revelation in making points only culling together seemingly contradictory statements taken out of context mixed with his own opinion as to what these things mean but never appealing to revelation. This of course contradicts immediately the observation of Joseph Smith (this is because he has denied the Holy Ghost-- therefore he never appeals to it, for he is a Darwinist at heart a la' Korihor and Sherem in the Book of Mormon):
As we have noticed before, the great difficulty lies in the ignorance of the nature of spirits, of the laws by which they are governed, and the signs by which they may be known; if it requires the Spirit of God to know the things of God; and the spirit of the devil can only be unmasked through that medium, then it follows as a natural consequence that unless some person or persons have a communication, or revelation from God, unfolding to them the operation of the spirit, they must eternally remain ignorant of these principles; for I contend that if one man cannot understand these things but by the Spirit of God, ten thousand men cannot; it is alike out of the reach of the wisdom of the learned, the tongue of the eloquent, the power of the mighty. And we shall at last have to come to this conclusion, whatever we may think of revelation, that without it we can neither know nor understand anything of God, or the devil; and however unwilling the world may be to acknowledge this principle, it is evident from the multifarious creeds and notions concerning this matter that they understand nothing of this principle, and it is equally as plain that without a divine communication they must remain in ignorance. The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets, and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these had to hide themselves "in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth," and though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men.
(Joseph Smith, Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, compiled by Alma P. Burton, p.114)
36 For, verily I say that the rebellious are not of the blood of Ephraim, wherefore they shall be plucked out.
37 Behold, I, the Lord, have made my church in these last days like unto a judge sitting on a hill, or in a high place, to judge the nations.
38 For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion.
39 And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and they who are not apostles and prophets shall be known.
5. Offenses Against the Church
There are really only three kinds of offenses of which the Church takes cognizance. First and most serious is the breaking of the moral law in any of its divisions. Second, deliberate disobedience to the regulations of the Church, which renders a person liable to such punishment as the Church can properly mete out to its members. Third, the incorrect interpretation of doctrine, coupled with an unwillingness to accept the correct view after proper explanations of the doctrine have been made. The first two types of violation are of conduct, the third of belief. All imply non-conformity to the practices of the Church or non-acceptance of its teachings.-PC 164.
(John A. Widtsoe, Priesthood and Church Government, p.209)
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For years Van Hale demurred on expressing his true beliefs.
He now says that the Book of Mormon, and Bible are moral fairytales meant to convert and influence people to goodness, but with no historicity or grounding in actual reality or fact, and that the hope of salvation from death and hell are quaint fairytales -- -- for there is no hell, and no resurrection to eternal life. The reality of the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the spirit in man is denied along with the manifestations of the Holy Ghost and visions and revelations,though he will not deny openly the resurrection of Jesus Christ for he knows that Amasa Lyman was excommunicated for doing just such a thing. He says as Sherem in the Book of Mormon:
And now behold, I, Sherem, declare unto you that this is blasphemy; for no man knoweth of such things; for he cannot tell of things to come. And after this manner did Sherem contend against me.
(Book of Mormon | Jacob 7:7)
The Lord says that the person who delights in exposing as he thinks, apparent contradictions between prophets is crucifying the Lord afresh and putting him to an open shame and manifesting a spirit the same spirit which crucified Jesus Christ.
Therefore they have to be two Isaiahs, for the spirit of prophecy is denied by this anti-Christ in sheep's clothing, also since prophets can not know of things to come, denying the spirit of revelation, they (modern Sherems), say that when the prophets wrote, they only wrote of things in their own time.
Whenever a caller would question him about his beliefs he lose patience, become defensive and angry. And now we know why. He has finally decided that it is safe (because he is dependent upon the economy in Utah, and apostates cannot earn a living very well in Utah among the network there). And thus the partial Antichrist stance. I say partial because he draws back from the brink by stating that he believes in Jesus Christ, but whenever there is a conflict between Scripture and evolution and the testimony of scholars (who are all-the-way antichrist) he tosses out to Scripture and the testimony of the prophets in favor of the testimony of these false scientists. Therefore one can state with surety that he does not believe truly in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is a miracle. Why is the miracle of the resurrection greater admitted by these but creation and inspiring prophets denied?
These are in denial concerning two main bodies of facts. In a court of law, out of the mouths of two or three witnesses and jurors accept facts to be proven. In the area of the near-death experience there are hundreds of thousands of testimonials. There are some things which are outside of the range of mere empiricism to detect.
Another area is the Michigan tablets. These stones were discovered from a period of 1853--1911, but these empiricists these antichrists the sherem-ites accuse Soper and Savage of manufacturing them even though many of them were discovered before these were born! James Talmage was one of them who was a geologist, which is a speculative science at best since there was no geologist present when strata was formed, therefore they speculate. The Grand Canyon saith the Lord was formed by a cataclysmic event. That event was the drainage of the waters from Noah's flood from the interior of a continent.
B. H. Roberts, The Gospel and Man's Relationship to Deity, p.281 - 282
The theory set forth in this writing that before Adam was placed upon this earth to people it with his offspring, the matter of which it is composed existed in another planet, which by some mighty convulsion was broken up, and from its ruins was formed our present earth, at once affords a means of harmonizing those facts established by the researches of men and the facts of revelation. If scientists shall claim that myriads of years or of centuries must have been necessary to form the earth's crust, it may be allowed by the believers in revelation, for there is nothing that would contradict that idea in the revelations of God on the subject. If scientists shall claim that the fossilized remains in the different strata of the earth's crust reveal the fact that in the earlier periods of the earth's existence only the simpler forms of vegetation and animal life are to be found, both forms of life becoming more complex and of higher type as the earth becomes older, until it is crowned with the presence of man-all that may be allowed. But that this gradation of animal and vegetable life owes its existence to the process of evolution is denied. As before stated, the claims of evolution, as explained by philosophers of the Darwin school, are contrary to all experience so far as man's knowledge extends. The great law of nature is that every plant, herb, fish, beast and man produces its kind; and though there may be slight variation from that law, those variations soon run out either by reverting to the original stock, or else by becoming incapable of producing offspring, and thus become extinct.
These antichrist evolutionists say there are no miracles. According to a Columbia University study 93% of evolutionists deny miracles. Therefore Van Hail draws back from the brink of total denial. But in his heart he does not believe, saith the Lord. He knows the one area of false doctrine one can be excommunicated for, is denial of the atonement of Jesus Christ as per Amasa Lyman. Therefore he is Antichrist in all of his beliefs while giving lip service to the divinity of Jesus Christ in order to protect his livelihood and good name amongst those whom he considers otherwise with disdain. And it is testimony of the corruption of the Church that he is not brought up on charges for apostasy, for if there were ever an apostate, Van Hale is one, saith the Lord.
Now Lucifer has philosophy enough and religion enough to suffer his agents to run along with the truth hand in hand, and make himself appear like an angel of light, and teach hundreds of true principles, if he can only thereby get you to swallow one item of false doctrine. But the grand story is, the devil may rage as long as he pleases, and use all the cunning and craft that he may, yet he never can overreach those who hold the keys of the Priesthood, nor succeed in deceiving them. This Joseph taught the people, but they were slow to believe. But now the energies of the people move as one man; and if they want to build a Temple, they can build it, and whatever they want to accomplish they can do.
(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 2:, p.15)
Men are educated to promulgate and sustain false theories to make money, and to create and uphold powerful sects. "And they teach with their learning, and deny the Holy Ghost, which giveth utterance." "Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted; and their churches are lifted up, because of pride they are puffed up. They rob the poor, because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor, because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart because in their pride they are puffed up." And all this because the fathers transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances, and broke the everlasting covenant delivered unto them. The truth is easily understood, and as easily told. The agriculturist and the mechanic can tell the truth, and become efficient ministers of it, by living faithfully in accordance with what they know of the Gospel; for in this way they obtain the Holy Ghost, which giveth utterance. Education is a good thing, and blessed is the man who has it, and can use it for the dissemination of the Gospel without being puffed up with pride. "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; and base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen; yea, and things which are not, to bring to naught things which are: that no flesh should glory in His presence."
(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 11:, p.215)
Excommunication of Amasa Lyman:
LYMAN, AMASA M. (1813-1877), was a member of the Council of Twelve from 1842 to 1867. His preaching of unorthodox doctrine pertaining to the atonement of Christ and his association with the Godbeites led to his excommunication from the Church in May 1870. (Brigham Young, Letters of Brigham Young to His Sons, edited and introduced by Dean C. Jessee, p.343)
Some Saints objected to economic regulation by the Church, and, unfortunately, the most extreme forms of objection led, as in earlier days, to apostasy. The most vigorous opposition came from a group calling itself the New Movement, though better known as the Godbeites. Its founders, William S. Godbe and E. L. T. Harrison, were already involved in both doctrinal dissent and spiritualism. Their dissatisfaction with what they perceived as the Church's effort to control business in the territory only helped strengthen their dissent and direct it toward apostasy and excommunication. Godbe and Harrison were joined by a few other LDS businessmen and intellectuals (Van fancies himself an intellectual) who sided with non-Mormon businessmen in calling for a return to uncontrolled free enterprise in the territory and lauding the economic value of mining. The outlet for their opinions was the Utah Magazine, founded in 1868, which was succeeded by the Mormon Tribune in 1870. Its name was soon changed to the Salt Lake Tribune. Even one apostle, Amasa M. Lyman, joined the New Movement, but he and the other Godbeite leaders were excommunicated in 1869, and the movement was short-lived. (James B. Allen and Glen M. Leonard, The Story of the Latter-day Saints, 2nd ed., rev. and enl., p.343)
(D&C 64:36-39)
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.
15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!
16 Wo unto them that turn aside the just for a thing of naught and revile against that which is good, and say that it is of no worth! For the day shall come that the Lord God will speedily visit the inhabitants of the earth; and in that day that they are fully ripe in iniquity they shall perish.
17 But behold, if the inhabitants of the earth shall repent of their wickedness and abominations they shall not be destroyed, saith the Lord of Hosts.
18 But behold, that great and abominable church, the whore of all the earth, must tumble to the earth, and great must be the fall thereof.
(2 Ne 28:14-18)
President Spencer W. Kimball spoke to the faculty and student body of the Brigham Young University on September 6, 1977, stating that "The Gospel is made up of absolute truths that do not change regardless of contrary opinions or beliefs of men." (Des. News, Sept. 10, 1977)
Diversity Is Perversity
No love of truth. They deny there is an absolute truth. Therefore they deny the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost spoke to the ancients. The Holy Ghost does not lie. The revelations of Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost are consistent from one generation to the next. The same gospel that saved Enoch, Able and Abraham must save us. The spirit of God cannot be deceived. The spirit of God existed before the world was made and has not changed. To deny this is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Organized junk sciences deny the Holy Ghost. When a man is filled with that spirit he knows that which is beyond the power of any man to controvert. These deny the testimony of the prophets. These antichrists, they love diversity. They consider anyone ignorant who loves truth, to be narrowminded, etc. they consider persons who oppose this diversity as they call it, to be ignorant and uneducated buffoons. Since there is no absolute truth one opinion can cancel out another. Therefore these Sherem-like antichrists love to show the contradictions between prophets to bring shame upon the God of Israel and put him to an open shame. Indeed these crucify God afresh and put him to an open shame saith the Lord like unto them of old, even Sherem and that antichrist Korihor.
93% of scientists deny the existence of God (Columbia University study) which they cannot prove. Therefore "science" is their religion. This religion causes the masses to raise their heads in ignorance and rebellion against the God that made them and lays the foundation for their destruction. This is the tax supported religion preached in the schools and which corrupt society and brings a curse upon the land and teaches them that mixing with the black race of Cain is an admirable and is a good thing.
This man (Van Hale) is a coward for he has structured things to blaspheme and evil speak immediately after I finish with no opportunity for a sur-rebuttle from me.
Antichrists Contradict the Scriptures:
2 Ne 9:41-42
41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
42 And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches--yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them.
September 17, 1854: Brother Pratt also thought that Adam was made of the dust of the earth; could not believe that Adam was our God or the Father of Jesus Christ.
President Young said that He was, that He came from another world and made this, brought Eve with him, partook of the fruits of the earth, begat children and they were earthly and had mortal bodies. And if we were faithful, we should become Gods as He was. He told Brother Pratt to lay aside his philosophical reasoning, and get revelation from God to govern him and enlighten his mind more, and it would be a great blessing to lay aside his books and go into the canyons as some of the rest of us were doing and it would be better for him. He said his philosophy injured him in a measure. Many good things were said by President Young--that we should grow up in revelation so that principle would govern every act of our lives. He had never found any difficulty in leading this people since Joseph’s death.
Mosiah 12:22
22 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing; for they shall see eye to eye when the Lord shall bring again Zion;
Mosiah 16:1-3
1 AND now, it came to pass that after Abinadi had spoken these words he stretched forth his hand and said: The time shall come when all shall see the salvation of the Lord; when every nation, kindred, tongue, and people shall see eye to eye and shall confess before God that his judgments are just.
2 And then shall the wicked be cast out, and they shall have cause to howl, and weep, and wail, and gnash their teeth; and this because they would not hearken unto the voice of the Lord; therefore the Lord redeemeth them not.
3 For they are carnal and devilish, and the devil has power over them; yea, even that old serpent that did beguile our first parents, which was the cause of their fall; which was the cause of all mankind becoming carnal, sensual, devilish, knowing evil from good, subjecting themselves to the devil.
3 Ne 14:14
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matt 7:13
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Eph 4:3-5,11-14
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
JST Matt 7:22
22 Repent, therefore, and enter ye in at the strait gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in thereat.
They deny Holy Ghost. Holy Ghost is absolute truth.
Korihor:
12 And this Anti-Christ, whose name was Korihor, (and the law could have no hold upon him) began to preach unto the people that there should be no Christ. And after this manner did he preach, saying:
13 O ye that are bound down under a foolish and a vain hope, why do ye yoke yourselves with such foolish things? Why do ye look for a Christ? For no man can know of anything which is to come.
14 Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers.
15 How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see; therefore ye cannot know that there shall be a Christ.
16 Ye look forward and say that ye see a remission of your sins. But behold, it is the effect of a frenzied mind; and this derangement of your minds comes because of the traditions of your fathers, which lead you away into a belief of things which are not so.
(Alma 30:12-16)
Sherem--
1 AND now it came to pass after some years had passed away, there came a man among the people of Nephi, whose name was Sherem.
2 And it came to pass that he began to preach among the people, and to declare unto them that there should be no Christ. And he preached many things which were flattering unto the people; and this he did that he might overthrow the doctrine of Christ.
3 And he labored diligently that he might lead away the hearts of the people, insomuch that he did lead away many hearts; and he knowing that I, Jacob, had faith in Christ who should come, he sought much opportunity that he might come unto me.
4 And he was learned, that he had a perfect knowledge of the language of the people; wherefore, he could use much flattery, and much power of speech, according to the power of the devil.
5 And he had hope to shake me from the faith, notwithstanding the many revelations and the many things which I had seen concerning these things; for I truly had seen angels, and they had ministered unto me. And also, I had heard the voice of the Lord speaking unto me in very word, from time to time; wherefore, I could not be shaken.
6 And it came to pass that he came unto me, and on this wise did he speak unto me, saying: Brother Jacob, I have sought much opportunity that I might speak unto you; for I have heard and also know that thou goest about much, preaching that which ye call the gospel, or the doctrine of Christ.
7 And ye have led away much of this people that they pervert the right way of God, and keep not the law of Moses which is the right way; and convert the law of Moses into the worship of a being which ye say shall come many hundred years hence. And now behold, I, Sherem, declare unto you that this is blasphemy; for no man knoweth of such things; for he cannot tell of things to come. And after this manner did Sherem contend against me.
8 But behold, the Lord God poured in his Spirit into my soul, insomuch that I did confound him in all his words.
9 And I said unto him: Deniest thou the Christ who shall come? And he said: If there should be a Christ, I would not deny him; but I know that there is no Christ, neither has been, nor ever will be.
10 And I said unto him: Believest thou the scriptures? And he said, Yea.
11 And I said unto him: Then ye do not understand them; for they truly testify of Christ. Behold, I say unto you that none of the prophets have written, nor prophesied, save they have spoken concerning this Christ.
12 And this is not all--it has been made manifest unto me, for I have heard and seen; and it also has been made manifest unto me by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, I know if there should be no atonement made all mankind must be lost.
13 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Show me a sign by this power of the Holy Ghost, in the which ye know so much.
(Jacob 7:1-13)
Amassa Lyman
Two Isaiahs
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God and evolution: do they mix?
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How long were the days of Genesis 1?
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