Prophecies Are Alterable

Prophecy Is Not Predestination: Prophetic Outcomes May Be Changed excerpt from "Thus Saith the Lord" by Duane Crowther

Several misunderstandings have been observed which should be commented upon in this setting. One such misunderstanding is the erroneous belief that prophecy is a type of predestination, which inalterably fixes the course of future events. Prophecy is not predestination. It does not govern what will come to pass. The scriptures teach that when conditions pertinent to the prophesied situation change, the outcome of prophecy may also change. Revealed prophecy pre-states the manner God will later manifest His will. If God chooses to alter His intentions, He may reveal new prophecy to His spokesmen indicating different outcomes to earth events. An understanding of this principle is basic to man's understanding of many of the manifestations of God. Many examples of this principle from the scriptures can be cited. One instance is the extension of life granted to Hezekiah, a righteous king of Judah. At one time during his reign, the king became ill. The word of the Lord concerning his fate was revealed through the prophet Isaiah: In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live. 33 But Hezekiah was a righteous man who knew how to prevail with God. He pleaded with the Lord for the privilege of a longer sojourn upon the earth: Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the Lord, And said, Remember now 0 Lord, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore."34 God heard Hezekiah's prayer and had compassion upon him. He changed his decision that Hezekiah was to die at that time, but He didn't just extend he king's life without revealing His new decision through His prophet: Then came the word of the Lord to Isaiah, saying, Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the Lord, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years. And I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria: and I will defend this city. And this shall be a sign unto thee from the Lord, that the Lord will do this that he hath spoken; Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down."35 Another example of new, altered prophecy being revealed is the account of Ahab, a wicked king of Israel. Ahab caused Naboth to be slain in order to obtain a vineyard which Naboth owned. Because of the king's wickedness, the Lord sent Elijah to make this prophecy to Ahab: Thus saith the Lord, Has thou killed, and also taken possession? And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the Lord, In the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth shall dogs lick thy blood, even thine. And Ahab said to Elijah, Hast thou found me, 0 mine enemy? And he answered, I have found thee: because thou hast sold thyself to work evil in the sight of the Lord. Behold, I will bring evil upon thee, and will take away thy posterity, .. .
... for the provocation wherewith thou hast provoked me to anger, and made Israel to sin. 36
Yet the scripture records the repentance of Ahab, which altered the condition upon which the prophecy was based. Because of Ahab's penitence, the will of the Lord changed. A new prophecy was revealed through Elijah, in which God's retribution was postponed: And it came to pass, when Ahab heard those words, that he rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his flesh, and fasted, and lay in sackcloth, and went softly. And the word of the Lord came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying, Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? Because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house."37 Another example of new prophecy being revealed because of changing conditions is found early in the history of the nation of Judah, when Rehoboam and his people were under attack by Shishak, king of Egypt. A prophetic warning was spoken against the princes of Judah by the prophet Shemaiah, who warned, "Thus saith the Lord, Ye have forsaken me, and therefore have I also left you in the hand of Shishak. "38 But then the condition changed. "The princes of Israel and the king humbled themselves; and they said, The Lord is righteous."39 With their repentance, the Lord chose to lighten His judgment upon them. A new prophecy was revealed through His prophet: When the Lord saw that they humbled themselves, the word of the Lord came to Shemaiah, 'saying, They have humbled themselves; therefore I will not destroy them, but I will grant them some deliverance; and my wrath shall not be poured out upon Jerusalem by the hand of Shishak. Nevertheless they shall be his servants; that they may know my service, and the service of the kingdoms of the countries.40 In yet another situation which exemplifies this principle of altered prophecy, a conditional warning was spoken by a man of God to King Amaziah during his rule in Jerusalem. The king was told that he would die in a contemplated battle against the Edomites if he used the 100,000 mercenaries he had hired from Israel: There came a man of God to him, saying, 0 king, let not the army of Israel go with thee; for the Lord is not with Israel, to wit, with all the children of Ephraim. But if thou wilt go, do it, be strong for the battle: God shall make thee fall before the enemy: for God hath power to help, and to cast down."41 Amaziah took heed to the prophecy and sent the mercenaries away. Consequently, in the battle his life was spared and he was able to conquer the Edomites (the children of Seir).42 Another example of a prophetic outcome being altered is found in the account of the prophet Jonah, who cried a warning of impending destruction against the people of the Assyrian city of Nineveh: The word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying, Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey. And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown."43 But the people of Nineveh repented in sackcloth and ashes,44 "and God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way;" and God repented of the evil that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."45Because of all the tribulation Jonah had suffered before delivering his warning message, "it displeased Jonah exceedingly" that God changed His will, yet the prophet had no choice but to accept the new revelation that came to him .46 Twice God revealed to the prophet Amos judgments He had determined to bring against Israel, yet the pleadings of that prophet were sufficient to alter the conditions and prevent the curse from coming upon his people. Instead of the judgment, God revealed His promise not to send it: Thus hath the Lord God she wed unto me; and, behold, he formed grasshoppers in the beginning of the shooting up of the latter growth; and, lo, it was the latter growth after the king's mowings. And it came to pass, that when they had made an end of eating the grass of the land, then I said, 0 Lord God, forgive, I beseech thee: by whom shall Jacob arise? for he is small. The Lord repented for this: It shall not be, saith the Lord. Thus hath the Lord God shewed unto me: and, behold, the Lord God called to contend by fire, and it devoured the great deep, and did eat up a part. Then said I, 0 Lord God, cease, I beseech thee: by whom shall Jacob arise? for he is small. The Lord repented for this: This also shall not be, saith the Lord God."47 Similar examples are found in latter-day scripture. For instance, the Lord revealed His will that the saints should gather to Zion, the New Jerusalem, in numerous revelations through His prophets.48 Yet the saints were not willing to support the gathering process fully. Less than half the number specified by the Lord, for example, were willing to participate in Zion's Camp."49 Some members of the Church, within Zion's Camp and elsewhere, fell into transgression; others refused to contribute their funds for the upbuilding of Zion. The conditions changed. The Lord, altering His will because of the attitudes of the Church members, revealed a new policy through the prophet Joseph Smith: Verily I say unto you who have assembled yourselves together that you may learn my will concerning the redemption of mine afflicted people Behold, I say unto you, were it not for the transgressions of my people, speaking concerning the church and not individuals, they might have been redeemed even now. But behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner of evil, and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them; And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom; And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself. And my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be, by the things which they suffer. I speak not concerning those who are appointed to lead my people, who are the first elders of my church, for they are not all under this condemnation; But I speak concerning my churches abroad-there are many who will say: Where is their God? Behold, he will deliver them in time of trouble, otherwise we will not go up unto Zion, and will keep our moneys. Therefore, in consequence of the transgressions of my people, it is expedient in me that mine elders should wait for a little season for the redemption of Zion-" And still the saints wait, for the Lord desires that the Church as a people "may be prepared, and that my people may be taught more perfectly, and have experience, and know more perfectly concerning their duty, and the things which I require at their hands."51 When the Lord reveals through His prophets that which will come to pass, it is not absolute, it is not unalterable, it does not govern the future. If conditions change, God, in His justice and mercy, will alter the events He brings to pass. Man, in his wickedness, may forfeit promised blessings, but it is man upon whom the responsibility must rest. As the Master revealed, Who am I, saith the Lord, that have promised and have not fulfilled? I command and men obey not; I revoke and they receive not the blessing. Then they say in their hearts: This is not the work of the Lord, for his promises are not fulfilled. But wo unto such, for their reward lurketh beneath, and not from above. S
52
His is the pledge that "I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say: but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise."53 Thus a pattern is established. A prophecy may be given which foretells future events. It may reach far into the future and deal with events completely foreign to the era in which it was spoken, yet it will describe or imply a condition and foresee the results of that condition. However, if when the time of fulfillment draws near, those involved alter the condition through wickedness, repentance, or other pertinent action, God may exercise His power and change the outcome. If the outcome is to be different from that foretold by His prophets, He will reveal new prophecy to his servants which will set forth the altered course of events. Two further comments should be made in connection with this principle. First, there may be some instances where God has revealed to his prophets a change in His previously-prophesied program, yet the change has not been recorded or a knowledge of it made available to mankind. Such a situation, obviously, can be a cause for confusion and doubt. In instances of this kind, the saints are left with incomplete evidence, and it becomes impossible to fully understand the situation at hand unless further revelation is made known to them. However, it is fortunate that there have been few times in either scriptural history or the history of the Church where such a problem has occurred. Second, it should also be noted that scriptural evidence of prophecies being altered is very limited. The evidence indicates that prophetic alteration has taken place occasionally, but the weight of evidence clearly shows that such happenings are comparatively rare. There are but few times when the future course previously outlined by prophecy has been changed. Such instances are not indications of indecision on the part of God. Instead, they usually are examples of God's mercy and love, in situations where wicked men have repented or righteous men have sought special favors from Him. Footnotes: 32. For those who might desire further examples, a detailed analysis of the prophecies recorded in the Old Testament beginning with the examples, a detailed analysis of the prophecies recorded in the Old Testaqment beginning with the ear of the divided kingdoms is found in the author's book, Prophets and Prophecies of the Old Testament (Bountiful, Utah: Horizon Publishers & Distributors). Chapter VI , "The Early Prophets and THeir Messages,"examines the messages of numerous prophets over a 200-year span. In it is repeatedly documented a series of insights concerning the nature of prophecy which is later summarized as follows:
A. God reveals the future to His prophets.
B. Prophecy is specific and accurate
C. Prophecy is literally fulfilled.
D. God warns His prophets of approaching challenges and dangers.
E. God directs people, through His prophets, as to how they should conduct
their lives.
F. God rules the destiny of nations.
G. God will not allow men to disturb His plans.
H. When situations change, the outcome of prophecy may change.
I. When God changes a prophetic outcome, He reveals the change to His prophet.
J. Man can avert or soften a prophecy of the Lord's punishment against him by truly repenting and
manifesting humility.
K. A prophet can forsee events hundreds of years into the future, and in differing national situations.
L. God often shows the truthfulness of a prophecy by giving a sign which receives immediate fulfillment.
M. A prophet can call upon the powers of God to smite and curse his enemies. N. A prophet can call
upon the powers of God to heal and remove curses. O. God demands that His prophets be treated with reverence and respect. P. God can use a man as a prophet even though the man is not free from sin. Q. God demands strict obedience from His prophets.
R. Man should test the prophets and their prophecies by the spirit of discernment.
S. Revelation serves for commendation as well as reproof.
T. Man's life is not predestined. Man himself determines his fate by establishing in the present a causeand-
effect relationship with the future. Prophecy merely pre-states what the ultimate effect of present actions will be. U. God often uses many prophets at the same time. V. A calling as a prophet did not necessarily require that the person with this calling stand at the head of the Church.
W.God gives His prophets control over nature to further His work.
X.God protects his prophets and supplies their needs.
Y.Prophets have the power to perform miracles.
Z.Some miracles are performed by the powers already vested in the prophet.
For other Miracles he must call upon God. AA. Miracles are often used to establish the divinity of Jehovah and the authority of His prophets. BB. On special occasions God gives His servants strength beyond the normal limits of endurance. CC. Many miracles are designed for the convenience of God's servants. DD. Some servants of God are transferred from this earth to another. They become translated beings. EE. Prophets have the power to discern the thoughts and deeds of others. FF. At times people perform specific actions to intentionally fulfill prophecies. GG. The Bible does not record the fulfillment of some prophecies. This does not, however, make them untrue. HH. At times prophets must suffer martyrdom for their testimony. II. Women can also speak the Lord's will, as prophetesses.
33. Is. 38:1. The full account is also given in II Ki. 20:1-11.
34. Is. 38:2-3.
35. Is. 38:4-8. Note that a sign was given with the prophecy. This is a common occurrence. While men
are expressly cautioned not to seek after signs (see, for example, D&C 46:9; 63:7-12; Mt. 12:38-39, etc.), signs are often given by the Lord in connection with prophecies. L, connection-with-Prophecies. (See Is. 38.7_8;--Jud. 6:17-21,-36-40., 1 Sam. 2:34;14:10; 1 Ki. 13:3-
5; Is. 37:30; 7:11-16; 19:19-20; 55:13; Jer. 44:29; Lk. 2:12, etc.)
36. I Ki. 21:9-22.
37. I Ki. 21:27-29. For the fulfillment of the prophecy on Ahab's wicked son,
Joram, see II Ki. 9:22-10:11. -
38. II Chron. 12:5_ ._
39. II Chron. 12:6.
40. II Chron. 12:7-8. Verses 9-12 tell the fulfillment of the latter prophecy.
41. II Chron. 25:7-8.
42. See II Chron. 25:9-12.
43. Jon. 3:1-4.
44. Jon. 3:5-9.
45. Jon. 3:10. In the Inspired Version, this verse reads, "And God saw their works that they-turned
from their evil way and repented; and.God turned away-the evil that he had said he would bring upon them."
46. See Jon 4-11.
47. Amos 7:1-6. See also Ex. 32:9-14; Gen. 18:20-33.
48. See, for example. D&C 45:64-66; 57:1-9; 66:11; etc.
49. The call was for 500 men; they eventually marched with 205. See D&C 103:30-36; HC 2:87-88;
also D&C 105:16-17.
50. D&C 105:1-9. 51. D&C 105:10.
52. D&CS8:3.143.
53. D&C 82:10. See also D&C 132:5; 130:20-21; 82:3.

Did the Civil War End Slavery ?

Brigham Young said concerning slavery and the Civil War:

"What is the cause of all this waste of life and treasure? To tell it in a plain, truthful way, one portion of the country wish to raise their negroes or black slaves and the other portion wish to free them, and, apparently, to almost worship them. Well, raise and worship them, who cares? I should never fight one moment about it, for the cause of human improvement is not in the least advanced by the dreadful war which now convulses our unhappy country. Ham will continue to be the servant of servants, as the Lord has decreed, until the curse is removed. Will the present struggle free the slave? No; but they are now wasting away the black race by thousands. Many of the blacks are treated worse than we treat our dumb brutes; and men will be called to judgment for the way they have treated the negro, and they will receive the condemnation of a guilty conscience, by the just Judge whose attributes are justice and truth.

Treat the slaves kindly and let them live, for Ham must be the servant of servants until the curse is removed. Can you destroy the decrees of the Almighty? You cannot. Yet our Christian brethren think that they are going to overthrow the sentence of the Almighty upon the seed of Ham. They cannot do that, though they may kill them by thousands and tens of thousands. - JoD 10:250 (Oct 6, 1863)

The anti-Mormons read the sermon above and say that Brigham Young is a false prophet because they say the Civil War ended slavery but as the article below shows, slavery for blacks has not ended.

Slavery in Islamist Sudan By Stephen Brown FrontPageMagazine.com | Thursday, November 01, 2007

It was the kind of excitement that made children uneasy. Grownups were pointing toward the river. Others were arriving at a run. The bustling atmosphere in the market place of the peaceful African town of Nyamlell in the Dinka tribal area in the southern Sudan was changing. Worried adults could see what a seven-year-old Dinka boy, Francis Bok, who had gone to the market that fateful day with older village children to sell his mother's eggs and peanuts, could not: "a storm of smoke" rising from a nearby village. Sellers frantically began to gather up their wares and hurry away with the buyers. The adults understood. They recognized the approaching signs of the dreaded scourge that most people believed had disappeared from the pages of African history long ago: a slave raid.

It was 1986 and Bok was about to see his happy world of family and village shattered forever by a centuries-old, barbaric practice that has never died out: the violent capture and enslavement of black Africans by Arabs.

"The Arab militias were told to kill the men and enslave the women and children," said the now 28-year-old Bok, who was himself captured and enslaved that day, to an audience of 80 people at the University of Toronto recently where he had been invited to speak by the campus organization, Zionists at U. of T.

Bok, who would spend the next ten years working as a child slave, then outlined for his college listeners in horrifying detail the savage hurricane of violence he next witnessed when the Arab slavers attacked.

"I saw many people on the ground, shot.I saw people with their heads cut off with swords and shot in the head. People were lying on the ground like they just wanted to relax for a moment. I saw blood pouring like a small stream," the 28-year-old Bok recounted in a voice that still quivers with emotion.

Unknown to him at that time, Bok was also an innocent victim of the decades-long, savage civil war between Sudan's Arab Muslim North and the country's African Christian and animist South. Based in the capital, Khartoum, the North's Islamist government, which also hosted Osama bin Laden in the 1990s, had promulgated sharia law in 1983 for the whole country in its quest to Arabize and Islamicize the non-Muslim South. Also as part of this goal, the Khartoum government armed Muslim militias and sent them in the 1980s and 1990s to wage jihad against the infidel southerners. However, the spears and hippopotamus shields of the South's Dinka and Nuer tribes, the war's main victims, were no match for the Kalashnikov-armed Muslims, who went on to kill two million southern Sudanese, displace another four million and take tens of thousands of slaves in a silent genocide.

After the slave raid, Bok, a Christian, told the audience he was taken to the Muslim North to work for one of the Arab raiders' families as a child slave for the next decade. During the pitiless trip north, the little Dinka boy witnessed the depth of racism, cruelty and religious hatred of his captors and their world towards black Africans when an Arab slaver cut off the leg of a Dinka girl who would not stop crying because she had seen her parents butchered in the market place. Upon his arrival at his master's home, Bok was to experience himself this racial viciousness when he was immediately surrounded and beaten by the masters' children who called him "abeed" (slave), an Arabic word also used for black Africans in general.

And a slave Bok was in every sense of the word as he worked for his master without a day off and without payment for the next ten years, often laboring from four in the morning until after the family had gone to bed that night.

"I was supposed to look after the goats; there were about two hundred goats," Bok told listeners of his first days as a seven-year-old slave. "My master knew all the goats. He would ask: 'Where is this goat? Where is that goat?' If I answered: 'I don't know. He would beat me.He had a favorite stick to beat me. When I had done something wrong, even when I had done nothing wrong, he beat me."

Lonely and isolated, Bok said he was made to sleep in a shelter near the animals and was never allowed to talk to the Dinka slaves owned by other Arab families. The child slave even received a beating, Bok told the audience, when he asked his master one day why he calls him 'abeed' and why no one loves him. He was told never to ask that question again.

The treatment Bok received from his master's wife, however, was even worse. She would, he related, not allow her 'abeed' to look her directly in the face and would spit in his, often calling on her children to spit on the Dinka boy too.

"That hurt," said Bok. "I asked her why? She said: 'You are my slave and this is my house.' She would also grab a knife and say she would kill me like a chicken."

For ten long years, Bok told his listeners, he would lie awake at night and wonder who was going to come and free him from this hopeless, helpless life of a slave where he was told he was just an animal. Even his forcible conversion to Islam, outwardly in Bok's case, did not bring any improvement in treatment. Only his faith in God, the Dinka slave stated, and his desire to see his parents again kept him going.

"I hated the way they treated me and the way they treated the other slaves," said Bok, recounting his humanity was never once recognized during all those years with the Arab family, his only value being the work he could do.

This was hideously emphasized by a nightmarish incident that convinced Bok to take matters into his own hands and escape. On a visit with his master to his master's friend, Bok said he was instructed to talk in the Dinka language to another boy-slave, who had had his leg cut off.

"I asked him what happened," Bok remembers. "He started crying and said he had refused to go to work for one day. He told his master he was sick and wasn't going to work. His master told him he had to go to work. There was no excuse. The boy continued to argue with his master, so his master cut his leg off."

At age 14, Bok told a silent audience he was caught escaping twice and badly beaten, and nearly killed the second time. Waiting until he was 17 to make another attempt, Bok successfully made it to Khartoum with the help of a kindly Muslim truck driver who took him home and bought him a bus ticket. From Khartoum, the young Dinka made it to Cairo where he was eventually allowed to come to America as a United Nations refugee in 1999. Today, the former African slave is a proud American citizen.

In 2000, sponsored by the American Anti-Slavery Group, Bok began speaking of his experiences to audiences across the United States, especially at schools and colleges, giving as his reason the fact he could not forget those Dinka slave boys he remembered seeing in the Sudan. In his anti-slavery advocacy, Bok became the first escaped slave to appear before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and has spoken to other politicians, including Colin Powell and George Bush, whom he and most Dinkas, he says, hold in high regard for his assistance to the southern Sudanese cause. The new African American, grateful to America for the second life it has granted him as well as for the opportunity to speak about his people, also wrote a highly engrossing book about his days as a boy slave, Escape From Slavery: The True Story of My Ten Years in Captivity - and My Journey to Freedom in America, that should be required reading in every high school.

About the only setback for Bok in America occurred when he discovered his father had been killed and his mother and sisters went missing in the same Muslim militia raid that saw him enslaved. His brother, however, was still alive and a member of the southern Sudanese, anti-government army.

As for the Sudan today, Bok says the problem remains the same in that the government is still trying to impose sharia law on its non-Muslim citizens, whom, he says, will never accept it and the second-class status it confers on non-Muslims. Bok, who is not against independence for the African South Sudan, also says he did not believe in the 2005 peace treaty between the North and the South that ended the war.

"It was a big deal for the Sudanese; but I didn't even smile," he said. "I knew it wasn't the real thing. I don't see it as a real peace. Why is it a peace when there is still a war (Darfur) in the country? They (the government) shifted the war to another region."

Bok says he plans to return next spring to the Sudan for the first time since his escape and would like to teach English to refugees in Darfur. Asked what he would say to his former master if he was standing in the same University of Toronto lecture room with him at that moment, the supposedly 'half savage' ex-slave said he would tell his former tormentor that he was "absolutely wrong" to do what he did and never to do it to another person.

"I don't want to do anything bad to him or to his wife who hit me," he said. "The only thing I could do is point a finger at him and say: 'This is the man who took my childhood away from me.' Other than that, I forgive him."

Did the Founding Fathers Oppose Christianity ?

In a debate on a usenet group with an atheist, he said the following:

>The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. >The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this >raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They >are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites." - Thomas Jefferson

>Which are you?

My response:

You take that comment out of context. Thomas Jefferson was a very perspicacious person. He believed in Christ but was against these Christian sects who supposedly spoke for God (priestcraft). He saw through their hypocrisy and inability to answer questions about God such as who He is, why God has ceased to speak, what happens after death, etc. Questions that can only be answered by revelation through the Priesthood.

29 He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.

(2 Nephi 26:29)

16 Nevertheless, this did not put an end to the spreading of priestcraft through the land; for there were many who loved the vain things of the world, and they went forth preaching false doctrines; and this they did for the sake of riches and honor.

(Alma 1:16)

Because the Priesthood had not been restored yet, many of the questions about God and life had not been answered that the Prophet Joseph Smith brought to light like the true identity of God, the fact that we also have a spirit body existing within out physical bodies, what heaven is like, etc.

"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors, suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and womenall hell knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)

80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

(Doctrine & Covenants 101:80)

VISION OF THE SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE AND U.S. PRESIDENTS by the third President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Sainsts Wilford Woodruff in the St. George Temple:

I will say here, before closing, that two weeks before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead, gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they: "You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we never apostatized from it, but we remained true to it and were faithful to God." These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and they waited on me for two days and two nights. I thought it very singular that notwithstanding so much work had been done, and yet nothing had been done for them. The thought never entered my heart from the fact, I suppose, that heretofore our minds were reaching after our more immediate friends and relatives. I straightway went into the baptismal font and called upon Brother McAllister to baptize me for the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and fifty other eminent men, making one hundred in all, including John Wesley, Columbus, and others; I then baptized him for every President of the United States except three; and when their cause is just, somebody will do the work for them. (1877, J.D. 19:229)
* * *

[138] I am going to bear my testimony to this assembly, if I never do it again in my life, that those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men. General Washington and all the men that labored for the purpose were inspired of the Lord. Another thing I am going to say here, because I have a right to say it. Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington called upon me, as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that l should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the house of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of this--Brothers J.D.T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James C. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all these men, and I then told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the Temple and labor until they got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me, as an Elder in Israel, to perform that work if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. I bear this testimony because it is true. The spirit of God bore record to myself and the brethren while we were laboring in that way. * * * (Rept. of Pres. Wilford Woodruff, Gen. Conf., April 10, 1898, pp. 89-90)

You are a fool and hypocrite.

Book of Mormon Prophesized in the Bible

A bigot anti-Mormon who are a dime a dozen said on alt.religion.christianity:

>Art Bulla and the Lord Jesus Christ, the Messiah, and Savior of mankind are not one in the same, Aaron. You may hold Bulla in high esteem, but I assure you, he's no Messiah (much less a prophet). No Aaron, as the Scripture says, "My sheep know My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me" (John 10:27). As one of Jesus' sheep, I assure you, I would NOT "have wanted to straitjacket Jesus".

"If Jesus spoke as rough things to this generation as he did the Jews, this generation would crucify him all over again." Joseph Smith

Messiah is an office in the Priesthood. It means "Lords' Anointed". Jesus is the Only Begotten, an office too. By its name, obviously you know there is only one who is the Only Begotten. There are two main tribes of Israel, Judah and Ephraim. Ephraim was invaded by Assyria and taken captive and scattered through Europe, losing their national identity permanently. Through the Lord's invisible guiding hand, the remnants of Ephraim were re-gathered on North America and formed the United States. Judah rejected their Messiah will Ephraim reject theirs ?

1 NOW the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he [was] the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.
2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him [came] the chief ruler; but the birthright [was] Joseph's:)

(1 Chronicles 5:1-2)

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and [for] all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

(Ezek 37:16-17)

5 Behold, this is wisdom in me; wherefore, marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel, to whom I have committed the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim;

(D&C 27:5)

The Book of Mormon
As recorded in the Book of Mormon, Lehi was warned that Jerusalem would be destroyed, and he was advised to take his family and leave. As he listened to the voice of the Lord and followed his instructions, he and his family were led out of the city to safety and into the new world, later to be known as America, while they who remained were destroyed or taken into captivity.
While the prophets in the old land were receiving revelations from God, the people of Lehi on this, the American continent, were not left without guidance. Prophets were raised up through whom God spoke and directed his people in all their doings as they would listen. He revealed to them also, 600 years before Christ's coming, that he would come, that he was the Savior of the world, that he would be persecuted and crucified, and that he would be resurrected.
This was foretold clearly by Lehi, Nephi, Alma, and others, including Samuel, to whom it had been revealed the exact time that Jesus Christ would be born. They were told of the signs which would be shown on this, the American continent, at the time of Christ's birth and crucifixion. Every word which had been revealed to them regarding these events was fulfilled. Following his crucifixion Christ appeared personally to the people on this, the American continent, and taught them the truths of the gospel.
Many of the revelations recorded in the Old and New Testaments, as well as in the Book of Mormon, refer most clearly to these, the latter days. Some of these are not generally understood by the world and can only be understood through revelations which were received in these the latter days, by the Prophet Joseph Smith. One example of these is that of John the Revelator who, when looking into the future, said:
Another Angel
"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
"Saying with a loud voice, Fear God and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." (Rev. 14:6-7.)
This revelation was fulfilled and clearly understood when the Angel Moroni did fly in the midst of heaven and appeared to Joseph Smith and told him of the plates which contained the gospel in its fullness. Joseph said that as the Angel Moroni appeared to him, he called him by name and told him that ". . . there was a book deposited written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fullness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants." (Joseph Smith 2:34.)
The Gospel Restored
Thus we know that the angel, as predicted or prophesied by John the Revelator has flown, that this great and glorious gospel has been restored in its fullness by the Lord through the Prophet Joseph Smith to be preached to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people.
Another revelation recorded in the Old Testament which refers to these, the latter days, and has reference to the Book of Mormon, is that received by Ezekiel wherein he says:
"The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
"Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
"And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand." (Ezek. 37:15-17.)
As I read this, I went to the Interpreter's Bible, which is written in twelve volumes, and is a commentary on all of the Old and New Testaments. This commentary was prepared by thirty-six consulting editors with over one hundred recognized, capable contributors and deals with all quotations from the Bible, taking them verse by verse and explaining their meaning and application. When I came to Ezekiel 37th chapter, verses 15 through 17, which I have just read, no feasible explanation was given, but conjectures only were made. This is no reflection on the editors or contributors to this great commentary, as they knew of no way to get the meaning.
Here again, by direct revelation and by direct revelation only, do we understand clearly what Ezekiel meant. Here the stick of Judah as referred to is the Bible, and the stick of Ephraim, which is written for Joseph and all the house of Israel his companions, is the Book of Mormon. Through the power of God and by direct revelation, this Book of Mormon, which contains the gospel in its fullness, was translated, and it with the Bible, became "one in thine hand." How clear and simple the words of Ezekiel become if we will but listen to the prophet's voice!

(President Nathan Eldon Tanner, Conference Report, April 1964, Second DayMorning Meeting, p.61-63)

Jesus said to the Jews:

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

(John 10:16)

After Jesus' resurrection, aside from visiting His Jewish Apostles, He visited the Nephites and Lamanites on the Americas:

14 And not at any time hath the Father given me commandment that I should tell it unto your brethren at Jerusalem.
15 Neither at any time hath the Father given me commandment that I should tell unto them concerning the other tribes of the house of Israel, whom the Father hath led away out of the land.
16 This much did the Father command me, that I should tell unto them:
17 That other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
18 And now, because of stiffneckedness and unbelief they understood not my word; therefore I was commanded to say no more of the Father concerning this thing unto them.
19 But, verily, I say unto you that the Father hath commanded me, and I tell it unto you, that ye were separated from among them because of their iniquity; therefore it is because of their iniquity that they know not of you.
20 And verily, I say unto you again that the other tribes hath the Father separated from them; and it is because of their iniquity that they know not of them.
21 And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of whom I said: Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
22 And they understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their preaching.
23 And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voice--that I should not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost.
24 But behold, ye have both heard my voice, and seen me; and ye are my sheep, and ye are numbered among those whom the Father hath given me.

(3 Ne 15:14-24)

3 And because my words shall hiss forth--many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.
4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?
5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.
12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.
13 And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews.
14 And it shall come to pass that my people, which are of the house of Israel, shall be gathered home unto the lands of their possessions; and my word also shall be gathered in one. And I will show unto them that fight against my word and against my people, who are of the house of Israel, that I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever.

(2 Ne 29:3-14)

An Email to My Mom

Dear Mom,

I received the voicemail that you left last night. I appreciate your love towards me and I love you. Like I said when I spoke with you yesterday afternoon, I will call you every other week. You can also contact me by email too.I just feel all that we could say to each other was said in yesterday's phone call. I think we will be just going in circles. I know that the Book of Mormon is true, that Joseph Smith , Brigham Young, Art Bulla are true servants of God. I know I am on the right road in my life and I would hope that you will repent and be baptized. I wish you will respect my life as I have decided to live.

Jesus said:

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
(Matthew 10:37-38)

"The integrity of the early Latter-day Saints, in remaining true to the gospel when a crucial test came, has always strengthened my faith; and I wonder if the boys fully appreciate the integrity of our parents. I desire to call the attention of our young people to a few incidents that have come under my observation, and the reasons why these people remained true.

"There was a young man living in one of the villages of Sweden who had grown to manhood and was a respected member of his father's family, and an honored member among the young people of the village. He had received a liberal education, and finally secured a lucrative position in a near-by city. He had not been located long in the city until he was a recognized leader among the young people of the place. As he was walking down the street one evening, he was attracted into a building where some "Mormon" elders were preaching the gospel. He was so impressed with the truth of what he had listened to that he invited one of the elders to his room, investigated further, and finally accepted the truth, was baptized, had the hands of the elders laid upon him, and received the Holy Ghost. When he received this witness for himself, he was so over-joyed that he could not rest until he had persuaded one of the elders to go with him to his father's home, and to take the glad tidings to those he loved best on earth.

"One cold, stormy day, the new convert and the elder started for the home of this young man who was delighted at the thought that his dear parents were going to receive the truth. He told the elder that he had one of the most honorable fathers, a kind and loving mother, brothers and sisters that he loved, and what a welcome they would receive when they arrived; there would be a warm fire to dry their wet clothes, and a choice supper would be cooked by mother; and he told how glad all would be to receive them; and, best of all, they would receive the gospel.

"Finally they arrived, cold, wet and hungry, but this was soon forgotten in the hearty reception they received. After the first greetings were over, they gathered around the warm fire, and the delighted mother was soon busy in the kitchen preparing the evening meal, and savory odors soon permeated the room. The young man was so over-joyed at the prospect of his parents receiving the gospel that he could not wait for supper to be served, or for them to get their wet clothes dried; but, being filled with that happiness that a knowledge of the gospel brings, told his father that his companion was a "Mormon" elder, and that he himself had accepted the gospel, and had brought the elder to bring the glad tidings to those he loved best on earth. But what a change those simple words produced! The father arose from his chair, called his wife and family around him, and said, "There is the boy we have doted on; the one we have looked upon to bring honor to his father's household; and, instead, he has brought shame and disgrace upon us." Then walking to the door, he opened it; and, pointing to the storm outside, he said: "My son, we all love you; we have looked forward with pleasure to the honor you would add to our name; but choose ye between the love of father, mother, brothers and sisters, the fireside of your youth and your honorable name, and this detestable religion, the storm and the night, and the casting of you out from our hearts and our homes!

"The young man looked for sympathy, but the same cold stare met him from each one present, and he was stunned and chilled to his heart. Then came upon him the many happy scenes of his youth, the love of father, mother, and all the tender ties of home; but, with tears in his eyes, and a lump in his throat, he buttoned his coat, put on his hat, and walked out into the night, an outcast from all that he loved best on earth.

"Why did the young man make this kind of a choice? Was he not human? Did he not love father, mother, brothers and sisters, and home? Why did he not say to that elder; "I was mistaken; there must be something wrong with a religion that will cause a person's loved ones to forsake him, and I prefer the love and honor of my home." But he did not do that, and the reason he did not, was because of that testimony that burned into his very being, and compelled him to admit that the gospel was true, and he could not deny it.

"His employer, learning that he had joined the Church, discharged him. His friends and companions no longer recognized him as they met him on the street. Why was this? Changes were taking place with other people. Many joined the Catholic, Presbyterian, and other religions, and their friends did not forsake them. Why should his forsake him, because he joined the "Mormons?" and, at this stage, why did he not turn back? He remembered the saying of the Savior: "He that will not forsake father and mother," etc., and the testimony remained with him, and he remained true to the faith."

(Improvement Era 1902)

Sincerely,

Aaron Kim

A Reply to a Typical Cultural Apostate Mormon Woody Brison on Alt. Religion.Mormon

"Woody Brison" wrote in message news:1192297141.895511.197510@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

On Oct 12, 12:43 am, "Aaron Kim" wrote (I had a lively discussion with two Mormon Elders:)

"My Conversation with Two Mormon Elders"

In Escondido, CA on Oct. 1st, Monday, around 11:40 am, I was riding my bike on my way to the post office when I saw two Mormon elders walking to a neighborhood. They were Elders Parker and Orr. We exchanged greetings...

-(Woody Brison:)This is a thrilling story. This is the point in life, that every person will come to sooner or later, that is the turning point in their life. If they listen to the LDS missionaries, they can get on the fast track thru mortality to eternal life. Most people never even see the missionaries or hear of the Gospel even. In this decade the missionaries are starting to reach everywhere almost, and lots of people see them... but most do not notice them. You have noticed them and are talking with them... you've crossed that threshold. It might be an occasion for a party!

But the LDS has departed from the correct way of the Lord just like the original Church of Christ so I might delay the party.

... and I started out by saying that I have a testimony of the Book of Mormon and that I knew Joseph Smith was a true Prophet of God. They seemed enthused. ...

-This is great. A truly great start. You are on the track, well along even.

... I continued by saying that however I am not part of the Church ...

-Which can be remedied, but the good part is that you do recognize this fact. With all your tanglings with Art Bulla we'd be cautious, you thinking maybe you are the Church and WE are on the outside of it.

Jesus held the Priesthood outside of the Jewish Church.

''An assumption frequently made is that the authors of the prophetic books of the Old Testament were the constituted authorities of the Church in their eras. This, however, was not always the case. Some of them were even considered rebels by the religious leaders of Israel in their days. Jeremiah was one such prophet who stood outside of the Church. The established Church, through its Priests, even attempted to put Jeremiah to death. Micah, Amos, Hosea, and Zephaniah were also prophets who were critical of corruption within the Church.

"These Old Testament prophets did not speak as representing the Church, but as representing the Lord. Though the prophets may have held the higher Priesthood authority, there is no Biblical indication that the general Church membership of that time was aware of it." Thus Saith the Lord; Duane S. Crowther, p. 148.

... and that I believed the current Church had departed the teachings of the original Church. ...

-And here we have your first problem. What you profess here is not true; the Church has continued faithful and is the same organization that Joseph Smith started. Naturally the Lord has made some changes over the years. That's what it's all about - He's actively guiding the Church.

No the Church has changed altered many important items of doctrines including polygamy, getting rid of the Seventies which have equal authority to the Twelve, stopping the gathering of Israel, and giving blacks the Priesthood.

"We are told that the living oracles take precedence over all other authority, living or dead. We agree that the living oracles take precedence, provided they do not conflict with the dead oracles. If it is true that the living oracles take precedence over all others regardless of their disagreements with the dead prophets, then the Saints must necessarily change their faith every time there is a change in the presidency to conform to the views of the new president. The mention of such an attitude is so absurd as to border upon the ridiculous." (Gospel Problems, Heber Bennion, p. 6)

20 To the law and to the testimony; and if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

(2 Ne 18:20)

9 For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?

(Morm 9:9)

"There is no clash in the principles revealed in the Bible, the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants; and there would be no clash between any of the doctrines taught by Joseph the Prophet and by the brethren now, if all would live in a way to be governed by the Spirit of the Lord. All do not live so as to have the Spirit of the Lord with them all the time, and the result is that some get out of the way."

(Preston Nibley, Brigham Young: The Man and His Work, 4th ed., p.310)

"That the Church's stand on morality may be understood, we declare firmly and unalterably, it is not an outworn garment, faded, old-fashioned, and threadbare. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and his covenants and doctrines are immutable; and when the sun grows cold and the stars no longer shine, the law of chastity will still be basic in Gods world and in the Lords church. Old values are upheld by the Church not because they are old, but rather because through the ages they have proved right. It will always be the rule."

(President Spencer W. Kimball, President Kimball Speaks Out on Morality, Ensign (CR), November 1980, p.94)

I find then President Spencer W. Kimball's sermon pretty amusing considering when about two and a half years ago in June 1978, he made the decision to reverse the ban of giving blacks the Priesthood, a policy of the Church from its very beginning.

And I will here say, as I wish to be understood by all men, that our faith is, there never has been but one Gospel upon the earth, though to-day there are six hundred three score and six different religious faiths, all more or less diverse one from another; but there is but the one true and everlasting Gospel, and never will be any more, and it is the same Gospel that was taught to Adam, to Noah, to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the Patriarchs, and which Jesus and the Apostles preached; it never did vary in the least in one single instance, nor never will. And I say, if we teach any other Gospel than that which was taught by Jesus and His Apostles, we teach a false Gospel and shall be under condemnation before God, angels and men.

(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 23:, p.127)

Evidence indicates that ordinances of salvation were available to the children of God from Adam to Moses. Joseph Smith declared "that [Adam] received revelations, commandments, and ordinances at the beginning is beyond the power of controversy."7 Those prophets who succeeded Adam knew the same gospel and ordinances. "How could Abel offer a sacrifice and look forward with faith on the Son of God for a remission of his sins, and not understand the Gospel?," the Prophet Joseph asked. "If Abel was taught of the coming of the Son of God, was he not taught also of His ordinances? We all admit that the Gospel has ordinances, and if so, had it not always ordinances, and were not its ordinances always the same?"8

(Sperry Symposium Voices of Old Testament Prophets: The 26th Annual Sidney B. Sperry Symposium , p.175)

... I explained that the Church no longer receives "Thus saith the Lord" revelations.

-A revelation from God does not have to contain the words "Thus saith the Lord". This phrase just means "this is what the Lord says." It means that the Lord speaks to the Prophet, and then the Prophet speaks to the people and tells them what the Lord said to him. If he leaves that phrase out, it give us no license to ignore the message.

-A prophet can get revelation in other ways. For instance, he might be taken up onto a high mountain and view the future. There might be nothing said vocally at all in this vision. Yet the Prophet could see the future, etc. and he could come back down and say "this is what's going to happen." He might not say "thus saith the Lord", if the Lord didn't speak to him during the vision, or didn't give him a message that he was specifically supposed to relay to the people.

-Or the Prophet could sense what the Lord wants done. Does the Lord have to spell it out? If He does, it suggests that the people and the prophet are not very close to Him. After they have been following His Gospel for a couple hundred years maybe they will get sufficiently close to Him that He doesn't have to spell out things, He can just think of what He wants and the people know. A revelation doesn't have to say "thus saith the Lord" to be a revelation. Ever heard the expression "your wish is my command"? If we know what the Lord is wishing, why would we not want to jump to do it for him? Why would we need Him to go thru a certain formula?

-The Church has been on the earth again now for 177 years. At first the Lord gave many revelations where he spelled things out in great detail, instructions on how to proceed. In some of them he didn't say "thus saith the Lord." With those written down and published and understood, He doesn't need to keep repeating the same instructions. So yes, you will see fewer and fewer revelations in the form of verbal messages given to the Prophet to be passed on to us, with or without the phrase "thus saith the Lord" in them on a day-to-day basis. If the Church is still on track, that's what we should expect.

I wonder if your "Prophet" Gordon B. Hinckley meets the criteria of a true prophet as described below.

The One True God" by Ogden Kraut

Chapter 10

JOSEPH SMITH: THE LONELY VOICE OF A PROPHET

From out of the masses of humanity, occasionally there arises someone who can speak for God. He is not a typical "money minister" nor a self-appointed imitator--but is a genuine prophet of God. His voice is seldom heard, and even less frequently believed, but his message is vital.

In these latter days, when there are so many counterfeit messengers of God, there must be at least one original. The counterfeits may be similar to each other, but the original will be a little different from the rest. The obvious difference is that all the counterfeits say they are right and Joseph Smith is wrong. But it would be foolish to believe that God would send a true prophet to tell us that the teachings of all these different Christian churches were right. It would be equally ridiculous to think that a true prophet would say that all the different churches had a correct concept of the identity of the real God.

A genuine prophet, of necessity, would come to testify of the error of their teachings and concept of God. Furthermore, a true prophet would clarify many of the mysteries unknown to the rest of the existing creeds and cults. And this is what Joseph Smith did!

But before accepting words of a man who claims to be a prophet, there must be some evidence or proof that he is a true prophet. A few of these guidelines are as follows and will be discussed briefly in this chapter:

[131] He must--

1. be called of God.
2. be in harmony with scripture.
3. receive revelation from God.
4. enjoy gifts of the Spirit.
5. receive the visitation of angels.
6. be assigned to a special work.
7. teach the doctrine of gathering.
8. prophesy and have his prophecies fulfilled.
9. be supported by other witnesses.
10. advise others to inquire of God.
11. be willing to die for the truth.

None of the "counterfeit Christians" have exemplified all these credentials--but Joseph Smith did.

1. He must be called of God.

A prophet must speak for God. He does not guess, suppose, or presume that he has been so called. He will have a definite time, place, and experience that indicates the reality of his call from God.

The Lord calls prophets personally, for He said, "Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream." (Num. 12:6)

False ministers and self-appointed prophets merely assume their call--either by vanity, desire, or dark revelation. Such prophets and teachers are those who "speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord" (Jer. 23:16). There have always been more imposters than genuine prophets, and they are described as the "foolish prophets that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing" (Ezek. 13:3).

The messages given to true prophets usually consist of new information--not a repetition of traditions already accepted. They reveal the "mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 13:11).

[132] As a teenage boy, Joseph wanted to know which church was right. Being honest enough and having great faith, he went to the woods to pray. While praying, he later recorded:

. . . I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun .... I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other--This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! (Pearl of Great Price, J.S. 2:16 & 17)

This kind of call from God separates the prophets from other Christian evangelists.

2. He must be in harmony with scripture.

The teachings of a prophet will not contradict former prophets nor scripture. Since God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, His teachings and doctrines are the same. There is only one gospel.

There is no evidence that salvation was one thing in the days of Adam, another in the days of Moses, another in the days of Jesus, and still another in the 20th century. Joseph Smith added:

I hope you will search the Scriptures to see whether these things are not also consistent with those things which the ancient Prophets and Apostles have written. (TPJS, p. 29)

One prophet may reveal new information, new truths and prophecies, but their doctrines will not clash or disagree with those revealed by former prophets. Thus, the teachings of one prophet will harmonize with those of all the other prophets. This was certainly the case with the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

[133] 3. He must receive revelation from God.

One of the most important duties of a prophet is to have communication with God. Even the humble servants who believe should receive such revelation. False priests and ministers are best known to be frauds by the simple fact that they deny revelation from God, nor do they believe they can receive it.

Revelation can come to people in many different forms, one of the most common being a written message through a true prophet, in which "Thus saith the Lord" is attached. This stamp of origin is one of the methods to detect a genuine divine revelation.

With over 100 revelations published and as many more not printed, Joseph Smith is one of the most prolific revelators in history. At the beginning of the Doctrine and Covenants the Lord revealed:

I the Lord knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven and gave him commandments. (D. & C. 1:17)

This is written revelation; it is scripture, and it bears the stamp of God upon it.

4. He must enjoy gifts of the Spirit.

A true prophet enjoys many gifts of the Spirit to help him accomplish his mission. Visions, dreams, speaking in tongues, healing, etc., are part of the heritage and blessings given to prophets.

According to Joseph Smith, a prophet should be in possession of all the gifts and be familiar with their discernment. He must understand the source of those gifts, or deception and chaos will follow.

[134]
Because faith is wanting, the fruits are. No man since the world was had faith without having something along with it. * * * A man who has none of the gifts has no faith; and he deceives himself, if he supposes he has. Faith has been wanting, not only among the heathen, but in professed Christendom also, so that tongues, healings, prophecy, and prophets and apostles, and all the gifts and blessings have been wanting. (TPJS, p. 270)

The existence of gifts of the Spirit is an evidence that God is pleased with those particular people or that their faith is acceptable to Him. How else would true prophets and disciples know that God is with them?

One example of the Prophet Joseph enjoying the gifts of he Spirit is included below:

Many of my brethren who received the ordinance with me saw glorious visions also. Angels ministered unto them as well as to myself, and the power of the Highest rested upon us, the house was filled with the glory of God, and we shouted Hosanna to God and the Lamb. My scribe also received his anointing with us, and saw, in vision, the armies of heaven protecting the Saints in their return to Zion, and many things which I saw. (D.H.C. 2:381)

The most popular creeds of Christianity today claim no vision or revelation from God. However, such visions are as necessary for the spiritual path to salvation as the vision of the eyes is to the temporal path of man.

Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he. (Prov. 29:18)

[135] 5. He must receive the visitation of angels.

Most prophets are instructed by angels. A prophet lives in communication with the spirit world and therefore knows and understands the nature of all angels.

Beginning when Joseph Smith was a teenager, he had dozens of experiences with heavenly beings. Angels came to him with important messages necessary for the restoration of the Gospel. Said the Prophet Joseph:

You know my manner of communication, how that in weakness and simplicity, I declared to you what the Lord had brought forth by the administering of His holy angels to me for this generation. I pray that the Lord may enable you to treasure these things in your mind, for I know that His Spirit will bear testimony to all who seek diligently after knowledge from Him. (TPJS, p. 29)

Oliver Cowdery describes and bears testimony of one of these heavenly visits when the Priesthood was restored:

On a sudden, as from the midst of eternity, the voice of the Redeemer spake peace to us, while the vail was parted and the angel of God came down clothed with glory, and delivered the anxiously looked for message, and the keys of the gospel of repentance! What joy! what wonder! what amazement! While the world was racked and distracted--while millions were groping as the blind for the wall, and while all men were resting upon uncertainty, as a general mass, our eyes beheld--our ears heard. As in the "blaze of days;" yes, more--above the glitter of the May sunbeam, which then shed its brilliancy over the face of nature! Then his voice, though mild, pierced to the center, and his words, "I am thy fellow servant," dispelled every fear. We [136] listened--we gazed--we admired: 'Twas the voice of an angel from glory--'twas a message from the Most High! And as we heard we rejoiced, while his love enkindled upon our souls, and we were wrapt in the vision of the Almighty! Where was room for doubt? * * * I shall not attempt to paint to you the feelings of this heart, nor the majestic beauty and glory which surrounded us on this occasion; but you will believe me when I say, that earth, nor men, with the eloquence of time, cannot begin to clothe language in as interesting and sublime a manner as this holy personage. (Times and Seasons, Vol. 2, No. 1, Nov. 1840, p. 202)

6. He must be assigned to a special work.

Each prophet of God is assigned to a specific work. Some are to testify, warn, and call to repentance; others to gather and organize the people and lead them; some to translate or keep records; and many other labors have also been designated.

Enoch was told to build a righteous city. Noah was commanded to build an ark. Moses was required to go and perform miracles for the children of Israel and the Egyptians. Solomon was instructed to build a temple. And more recently, Joseph Smith was told by the Lord:

And you have a gift to translate the plates; and this is the first gift that I bestowed upon you; and I have commanded that you should pretend to no other gift until my purpose is fulfilled in this; for I will grant unto you no other gift until it is finished. (D. & C. 5:4)

Thus, Joseph labored diligently and exercised this heavenly gift until he finished the translation of the Book of Mormon. He not only translated the Book of Mormon and the writings of Abraham and Moses, but also published [137] a book of revelations, made an inspired revision of the Bible, gathered many thousands of believers, established a university and cities, and was a candidate for United States President. All this he accomplished before he was 40 years old!

Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3)

7. He must teach the doctrine of gathering.

The Prophet Joseph advocated that "We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes. . . ." (Tenth Article of Faith) He also stated:

One of the most important points in the faith of the Church of the Latter-day Saints, through the fullness of the everlasting gospel, is the gathering of Israel .... In speaking of the gathering, we mean to be understood as speaking of it according to scripture, the gathering of the elect of the Lord out of every nation on earth, and bringing them to the place of the Lord of Hosts, when the city of righteousness shall be built, and where the people shall be of one heart and one mind, when the Savior comes; yea, where the people shall walk with God like Enoch, and be free from sin. The word of the Lord is precious; and when we read that the veil spread over all nations will be destroyed, and the pure in heart see God, and reign with Him a thousand years on earth, we want all honest men to have a chance to gather and build up a city of righteousness, where even upon the bells of the horses shall be written "Holiness to the Lord." (TPJS, pp. 92 &
93)

[138] Orson Pratt explained that Joseph Smith taught the doctrine of gathering:

The doctrine of the gathering of the people of God, including Israel, is one so clearly predicted by the inspired writers, that it seems almost superfluous to refer to the numerous passages relating to it. * * * How came Mr. Smith, if an impostor, to get, not only all the other particulars which we have mentioned, perfectly exact, but also to discover that there must be a gathering of the Saints out of Babylon, and that that work must immediately follow the introduction of the gospel by an angel? Why did he not say, my doctrine is true, and if you will embrace it you can be saved, and still remain where you are? It matters not how correct this doctrine might have been in all other points, if he had told his disciples to remain among the corrupt nations, and not gather together--this alone would have exposed the cloven foot, and proved him to be a deceiver. Swedenborg, Wesley, Irving and a numerous host of others, during the last seventeen hundred years, have entirely neglected the gathering, which proves that they were without authority--that a dispensation of the gospel was never committed to them--that the voice from heaven to come out of Babylon had never saluted their ears. Previous to the restoration of the gospel by an angel, God had no people in Babylon, and therefore he could not call them out. An unauthorized uninspired priesthood, preaching a perverted gospel, never could raise up a people of God in Babylon; for they themselves are Babylon, and all their converts or children are begotten after their own likeness with Babylonish inscriptions upon their foreheads. (Orson Pratt's Works, pp. 9 & 10)

[139] 8. He must prophesy and have his prophecies fulfilled.

Before important events transpire, God usually speaks through a prophet to declare His words of warning. Those prophecies are fulfilled conditionally, unless God tells him that they shall definitely come to pass.

So a prophet proves what kind of prophet he really is by whether or not his prophecies come to pass. God said:

But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded to him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously; thou shalt not be afraid of him. (Deut. 18:20-22)

There were over 20 major prophecies of Joseph Smith that were fulfilled, and perhaps hundreds of minor ones directed toward certain individuals or pertaining to less important events. Also, some of his prophecies were about the future and are continuing to be fulfilled.

A few of Joseph's prophecies were--

1. The place, conditions and consequences of the great Civil War, prophesied
30 years before it began.

2. Judge Stephen A. Douglas's aspiring to the U.S. Presidency and his fall--and why.

3. The immigration of the Saints to the Rocky Mountains and their increase in numbers and wealth.

[140] Many other prophecies are coming to pass, such as the Russian rise to power over nations and the eventual outcome of their regime.

9. He must be supported by other witnesses.

The work of God must be established by witnesses. In the courts of man, as well as in the courts of heaven, it requires evidence to establish truth. Jesus said, "... in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." (Matt. 18:16)

As mentioned earlier in this chapter, the first major work of this dispensation was the translation of the Book of Mormon from the gold plates. Shortly after the beginning of this work, Joseph was promised by the Lord:

And in addition to your testimony, the testimony of three of my servants, whom I shall call and ordain, unto whom I will show these things, and they shall go forth with my words that are given through you. Yea, they shall know of a surety that these things are true, for from heaven will I declare it unto them. (D. & C. 5:11-12)

Joseph was thrilled to know that he would not be alone to tell his story. Three witnesses saw the plates and an angel, and eight others saw the gold plates. Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, and Hyrum Smith were among those who served as special witnesses to other major manifestations.

10. He must advise others to inquire of God.

A false prophet will not generally tell you to ask God to reveal the truth of his teachings or revelations; but the Prophet Joseph did. He admonished everyone to--

[141]
Search the scriptures--search the revelations which we publish, and ask your Heavenly Father, in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, to manifest the truth unto you, and if you do it with an eye single to His glory nothing doubting, He will answer you by the power of His Holy Spirit. You will then know for yourselves and not for another. You will not then be dependent on man for the knowledge of God; nor will there be any room for speculation. No; for when men receive their instruction from Him that made them, they know how He will save them. (TPJS, pp. 11-12)

Even in the Book of Mormon which Joseph translated, it admonishes:

I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you.... (Moroni 10:4)

11. He must be willing to die for the truth.

The Apostle John prophesied that disciples and prophets would be required to shed their blood to seal their testimony:

I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled. (Rev. 6:9-11)

[142] Very few men are so convinced of the truth that they would be willing to die for it.

The Prophet Joseph knew that he would be martyred before he was 40 years old, yet he did not compromise or deviate from what the Lord revealed to him. On his final trip to Carthage, Joseph said to the company who were with him:

I am going like a lamb to the slaughter, but I am calm as a summer's morning. I have a conscience void of offense toward God and toward all men. If they take my life, I shall die an innocent man, and my blood shall cry from the ground for vengeance, and it shall be said of me, "He was murdered in cold blood!" (June 24, 1844; D.H.C. 6:554-555)

And three days later this true prophet of God sealed his testimony with his own blood--thus fulfilling another of his own prophecies, that his blood would be shed as a testimony to the truth.(end)

...I said the last revelation was written by President Wilford Woodruff in 1889, a year before the 1890 Manifesto that overturned polygamy as Church doctrine ( a man made fabrication that the leaders wrote to avoid persecution from the federal government although then President John Taylor in 1886 received a "Thus saith the Lord" revelation saying that plural marriage is an everlasting principle and cannot be done away with:http://www.artbulla.com/zion/1886.html) ...

-Before we get into that, let's ask whether that would be reasonable. It would mean that the LDS leaders were cowards, liars, and amoral scoundrels. Are they like that? Did President Woodruff experience such a 180 degree change in character between one year and the next?

-It doesn't fly.

... Elder Parker did most of the talking. He was obviously the file leader. He said how he knew that Gordon B. Hinckley is a true Prophet and that the Spirit is with him. I preached to both of them about how the Church apostatized. I pulled out my laptop and showed them the following quote by Brigham Young:

"Let this Church which is called the Kingdom of God on the earth. We will summons the First Presidency, the Twelve, the High Council, the Bishopric, and all the Elders of Israel, suppose we summons them to appear here, and here declare that it is right to mingle our seed, with the black race of Cain, that they shall come in with us and be partakers with us of all the blessings that God has given to us. on that very day and hour we should do so, the Priesthood is taken from THIS CHURCH AND KINGDOM and god leaves us to our fate. The moment we consent to mingle with the seed of Cain, the Church must go to destruction we should receive the curse which has been placed upon the seed of Cain, and never more be numbered with the children of Adam who are heirs to the Priesthood until that curse be removed."

(Brigham Young Addresses, Ms D, 1234, Box 48, Folder 3, dated Feb. 5,1852,located in the LDS Historical Dept. SLC, UT.)

Elder Parker expressed skepticism that this was a real quote from Brigham Young. I talked about the One Mighty and Strong and the two Messiahs , one to Judah and one to Ephraim. ...

-So you changed the subject, avoided the question. Let's change it back and look at the question right now. I don't expect that the quotation is bogus (it might be) but I don't think Brigham Young said this for the edification of all the world. He said it for the benefit of those present at that time, that small group. If he was going to publish it to the world, he would have. And he'd probably work it over with a red pencil, to make it read clearly. As it stands, can be understood - if you are familiar with President Young's offhand manner of speaking in private occasions. But it contains some subtleties, figures of speech, and certainly some grammar and capitalization errors, which little items certify that it was never prepared for publication by the author.

-But look at the statement itself. What's BY saying? That they could assemble all the men in the Church that have the keys and the authority - all of it, and he the Prophet could tell them they are going to cancel the restrictions on priesthood and Temple marriage for the blacks, but it wouldn't work. For the LORD is the one that laid down those restrictions and He is the only one who can rescind them. Not even with the unanimous consent of all the leaders of the Church could man overrule the decree of the Almighty.

-Now look at the end of the quote. "...until that curse be removed." That implies, in plain English, that the day is going to come when that curse will be removed. It's NOT permanent and unchangeable. The Lord can change it.

"The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race-that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree. How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam's children are brought up to that favourable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed. When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive the blessings in like proportion." (Brigham Young;Journal of Discourse 7:290-291)

"When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the four quarters of the earth, and have received their resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity." (Journal of Discourses v2, Discourse By President Brigham Young)

225 Yea, thus saith the Lord, think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am come not to destroy, but to fulfill.
226 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall not pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
227 Yea, thus saith the Lord, have all things been fulfilled?
228 Behold I say unto you, nay.
229 for has the millenium, even the thousand
years of peace, hath it passed, or hath it been fulfilled?
230 I the Lord thy God, who maketh the heavens and the earth and set them in their proper frame and orbits say unto you, O man, nay.
231 Hath the earth received her resurrection and her final reward?
232 I say unto thee, O man, who walketh about in darkness at noon-day, nay.
233 Have all the sons and daughters of Adam received of the blessings which shall be theirs?
234 I say unto thee, O man, nay.
235 And it is not until all these things, even
that which hath been spoken by the mouths of my servants the prophets be fulfilled that the Sons of Cain, the first murderer, shall receive of the blessings of the Priesthood of the Son of God, and then they shall be resurrected to receive of that which hath been appointed unto them from before the foundation of the world.
236 For the blood of righteous Abel did cry up unto me, even in these things.
237 And it is because of unbelief that this great wickedness hath come among you, even at this time.
238 Whosoever shall therefor break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: But whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
239 And how much greater, saith the Lord, is my servant, Art Bulla, than those whom ye sustain as your Presidencies? 240 For the keys, even of the Kingdom of God have been taken, even from them, and given unto him who shall do my will, and believed in my words and my works from before the foundation of the world, saith the Lord God of Israel, even unto my servant have they been given, that he may prove unto you, O man, that I the Lord thy God am the same, yesterday, today, and forever. 241 For, saith the Lord, there is no agency except their own wicked hearts of unbelief, in your prophets at all, but they, even they, are as wood and stone.

Revelations of Jesus Christ Section 2.

So the curse has not been removed yet. The President of the Church is just an individual voted by the people. Prophets are chosen by God.

Journal of Discourses, Vol.1, Pg.133, Brigham Young, April 6, 1853

"Perhaps it may make some of you stumble, were I to ask you a question--Does a man's being a Prophet in this Church prove that he shall be the President of it? I answer, no! A man may be a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and it may have nothing to do with his being the President of the Church. Suffice it to say, that Joseph was the President of the Church, as long as he lived: the people chose to have it so. He always filled that responsible station, by the voice of the people. Can you find any revelation appointing him the President of the Church? The keys of the Priesthood were committed to Joseph, to build up the Kingdom of God on the earth, and were not to be taken from him in time or in eternity; but when he was called to preside over the Church, it was by the voice of the people; though he held the keys of the Priesthood, independent of their voice."

Anyways, in order for the curse to be removed, it would take one as great an authority as Noah because he was the one who put it on after the flood.

-Now, when the Lord sees fit to change it, how will He tell us? Will he go tell the reporters at the NY Times and they write it up? It would get garbled that way, and their editors would doubt they really got this from the Lord, and he'd probably not let it get printed. Would the Lord tell the the leaders of the world at some summit conference? Appear to them and announce it? No, their offices are not involved in spiritual matters; their job is to regulate trade and avoid wars and make wise laws. There are no laws about blacks getting the priesthood, on the books of the civil governments of the world. Would the Lord tell the ancient grey heads of Tibet? No, it would be 100 years before they decided it was a real manifestation, or maybe they would decide it wasn't after all. The Lord has chosen one man to transmit such announcements, and that man is the senior Apostle on the earth. It's always been so, ever since Peter, the senior Apostle, got the revelation to extend the blessings of the Gospel to the Gentiles, as recorded in Acts 10.

-... I described how after King Solomon died Israel was divided into two nations, the Northern Kingdom and the Southern Kingdom.

Let's skip down a bit.

... So I finally talked about Art Bulla. ... He was baptized into
the Church that year and was an Elder until ordained a 70 Apostle by Rex D. Pinegar in 1974.

There is no office of "70 Apostle". If Pinegar said this, it was an error. Apostle is one office and Seventy is another. In a philosophical sense, Seventies are Apostles, since the word apostle means "one sent forth". Every man who gets the priesthood is "sent forth" and all may be considered apostles in that sense. But it's only a philosophical consideration.

Seventies are Apostles but your evil Church did away with them.

Lectures on True Doctrine

Art Bulla

Lecture No. 7.

The Church (Mormon) has apostatized on this point, saith the Lord, even that of the Seventy and the Apostleship, for the Keys of the Kingdom of God, have I the Lord God of Israel removed from them in their iniquity.

After these things the Lord appointed other Seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come." Luke 10:1 (Luke was a Seventy)

"One of the ordained offices in the Melchizedec Priesthood is that of a Seventy." Mormon Doctrine; Bruce R. McConkie, p. 707.

"The office of the Seventy has been discontinued, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints announced Saturday." Salt Lake Tribune; Oct 5, 1986.

"An announcement that members of the First Council of Seventy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints had been ordained High Priests to give them 'power to set in order all things pertaining to the Church as they visit among the Stakes and Missions..." Conference Report; Sept, Oct, 1961 p. 90.

"Therefor, at the late general conference, five men, High Priests, were called to act as assistants to the Twelve. This action shows the adaptability of the Church to changing, increasing conditions..." John A. Widtsoe; Imp. Era, May, 1941, p. 288.

"All of the assistants to the Twelve Apostles are High Priests. If an elder or a Seventy should be selected to be an assistant to the Apostles, he would be ordained to the office of a High Priest." Imp. Era; Oct, 1956, p. 752.

Inquire why the Lord waited until 1956 to make this innovation. (Obtain opinion).

Non-Apostate Position:

"And they (the Seventy) form a quorum equal in authority to that of the Twelve special witnesses or apostles just named." D&C 107:26.

Brigham Young: "There is authority and there are degrees of authority, and there is a difference in degrees, callings and authority of the Priesthood. If there should be one apostle left on the earth, he can regulate and set in order the whole of the church and kingdom of God. If there is one seventy left he could do so. This order is not my getting up, it is the Lord's doings; high priests my mourn over it, the Lord has said it, and I have no right to say it is not so. (Now we have Spencer W. Kimball assuaging the High Priests mourning, contradicting President Young. Of course the devil usurps right by saying it is not so. I detect the devil by his contradicting President Brigham Young, and more importantly by his contradicting the Holy Ghost which testifies of the perfidy of this departure from the Holy Order of God.) Des. News, June 6, 1877, p. 274. (The year he died.)

B. H. Roberts: "...and of course,...(the Seventies are) indirectly equal in authority to the First Presidency, since things equal to a common thing must be equal to each other." CHC; vol 2, p. 369.

Joseph F. Smith: "The Seventies are called to be assistants to the Twelve Apostles; indeed they are Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, subject to the direction of the Twelve, under the direction of the First Presidency of the Church to preach the Gospel." Conf. Report; April, 1907, p.5.

"Such a suggestion mad Joseph righteously angry. Said he, 'O My brethren with as much as I have taught you, and as many revelations as have been given on the subject of the Priesthood, that you should ask such a question! It would be an insult to the Priesthood of the Son of God to ordain a man a High Priest after he had been ordained an Apostle; for the Apostleship holds all the keys of the Priesthood upon the face of the earth, to build up the Kingdom of Heaven, to sanctify the people and prepare them to enter into the presence of God the Father. Now, to say that such a man, holding this Priesthood, should be ordained a High Priest is an insult, and I want to hear no more about it!" Brigham Young; Deseret News, June 6, 1877.

"Brethren I am going to tell you something that will make many of you stumble, Brother Heber Kimball and myself were never ordained High Priests. How marvelous! Thomas B. Marsh (President of the Twelve at that time) came to us and wanted us to be ordained High Priests. Such a suggestion made Joseph righteously angry..." Brigham Young

Have investigator read testimony of One Mighty and Strong on His Revelation concerning Seventy:

This, along with several others of major importance (Celestial Marriage, Negro-Priesthood, Temple Endowment) is one of the main doctrines which the adversary through false administrators has altered vital parts or portions to the salvation of mankind, the plan of salvation as revealed from heaven, and which cannot be changed, saith the Lord, but must remain the same on all the worlds, and through all time and throughout all eternity, for the "same gospel that saved Abraham, must save us"--Joseph Smith: TPJS. After I had received my first two written revelations, I got myself down again upon my knees and inquired of my God concerning what authority I possessed to dictate the affairs of the Kingdom of God upon the earth, by ordination, whereupon I was almost picked up from off my feet and led over to my bookshelf whereupon I was commanded by the Spirit to pick the book, Discourses of Brigham Young from off the shelf, and I opened it right to the page and my eyes fell first upon the paragraph spoken by Brigham Young in which the words sprang out at me: "He stated that the Seventies are ordained apostles, and when they go forth into the ministry they are sent with power to build up the kingdom in all the world and consequently have power to ordain High Priests and also to ordain and organize a High Council. Discourse of Brigham Young; History of Brigham Young Manuscript; Dec 14, 1845. As I read these words my frame was filled with such power and glory that I felt to whoop and shout for the joy and power of it, yea my God, the Holy One of Israel, for he hath revealed unto me the truth and hath he not set me free to build up his kingdom? And I received at that time another revelation that whatsoever I bound on earth would be bound in heaven, and whatsoever I loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven and that the Keys of the Kingdom were then given unto me, and he would recognize no one else as His anointed. I was then commanded to take the two revelations which I had at that point received to my hometeacher, Randy Olsen, who screamed blasphemy, shouting I had the spirit of the devil! the spirit of the devil! Whereupon he ran upon me and pounded me about my face, and broke my nose, and would have killed me in his fear and rage, but for his wife who ran into the room shouting Randy! Randy! My stake then wanted me to apologize to him! Which I wholeheartedly would not do. Whereupon they, in their wisdom convened a High Council Court and summarily excommunicated me. I received a revelation after my incident with Randy that stated that the Prophets had been treated in just this manner in all ages of the world by the wicked of the children of men, stoned, crucified, whereupon I leaped and shouted for joy." Teachings of the One Mighty and Strong No. 12.

Parley P. Pratt: "...in case the quorum of the Twelve should by any means become disorganized, that the Seventies held the jurisdiction and authority of Presidency of the Church in all the world wherever it might be found. That the High Priest's duty would be the same as it is now; they have to attend to their affairs, but the authority of Presidency over the whole Church belonged to the Seventies; and if all the Seventies were killed off except one Seventy, that Seventy would not only possess the right but would be duty bound to stand in their place as the First Presidency of the Church. He said that Joseph Smith the Prophet undertook to establish this idea in the minds of the brethren in Kirtland, but the jealousies that began to arise in the minds of the high Priests prevented him from doing so...He further stated that the difference between the authority of the Seventies and the high Priests was this: The high Priests possessed the High Priesthood, but the Seventies possessed the High Priesthood and the Apostleship, which was the highest power on the earth or in the Church. Parley P. Pratt, Nauvoo Record Book B, p. 226.

"The Seventies are Apostles; and they stand next in authority to the Twelve...If through the providence of God the First Presidency and the Twelve were taken away, then it would be the duty of the Seventies to preach the Gospel, build up the Church , and ordain every officer requisite in order to establish the Church, and ordain High Priests, Bishops, High Counsellors, Patriarchs, and set in order the whole church in all the world. This is according to the revelations given to us...I suppose I ordained hundreds (not just the first quorum as is generally supposed, so all Seventies were and in the case of Art Bulla, are general authorities and are, saith the Lord, recognized by me in their administrations, for they are, saith the Lord, legal administrators of my Kingdom) of Seventies in early days. Brother Joseph Smith has come to us many times, saying, 'Brethren, you are going to ordain Seventies. Do not forget to confer the high priesthood (Melchizedec priesthood) upon them. Ordain each of them to the High Priesthood, and to be one of the Seventy Apostles.' This was my language in the ordination of the Seventies, and that is the way i ordain them now. Brigham Young, Des. News, June 6, 1877, p. 274.

Go to Flannel-board Presentation:

"The Presidency of stakes may proceed from the beginning, and without supervision, may organize, number, and manipulate the quorums of the elders without reference to any other presidency, but he can't proceed so with the seventies quorums, which are not stake quorums, but general church quorums-he may not proceed so with the Seventies quorums, then, without consulting with and directed by the general presidency of the Seventy's Quorums, which is the First Council." B.H. Roberts, Letter to Stake Pres. Henry D. Moyle, Cottonwood Stake, Feb 29, 1928. Note: In 1974, two weeks after i had been ordained to the office of a Seventy, Mr. Kimball, cane out with a directive to have the Seventy subsequently to be ordained by Stake Presidents, contrary to the Holy Order of God!)

"Seventies quorums are not stake quorums. They do not function as stake quorums. There is nothing for them to do as a quorum in a stake. They are not essential in any way to a stake organization. The Seventies quorums exist and have existed throughout their duration in the Church independent of Stake lines...Stakes may be fully organized without having a quorum of Seventies ate all...The 115th quorum of Seventies is not the 115th quorum of any stake...but is the 115th Quorum of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints, and should remain so unconfused with any Stake numbering. B. H. Roberts, Letter to First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, dated Oct. 25, 1926-during this time the Seventies were being stripped of their rightful power in the Church by John Widtsoe, and Heber J. Grant-politics! How dare they tamper with the everlasting gospel? Who did they think themselves to be? The Owner and Master Builder of old ship Zion, can rearrange the masts, perhaps, but not the Captain. But the gospel being the same on all worlds, and through time and throughout eternity cannot be abrogated or changed except by me or by my authority, saith the Lord. For how can I change that which is everlasting? For my covenants, my word and my law are they not everlasting? Yea, they change not, for these are not circumstances which do change, but are principles which are inviolate, saith the Lord, and they who tamper with these things, to steady the Ark of God shall be smitten by the shaft of death, as it is written. Even so. Amen. Revelation Received Feb. 26, 1992; Provo, Utah.

"After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come." Luke 10:1.

Modern "Leaders":

"The First Presidency and Twelve feel that to meet adequately their great responsibilities and to carry on efficiently this service for the Lord, they should have some help. Accordingly it has been decided to appoint assistants to the Twelve, who shall be High Priests, who shall be set apart to act under the direction of the Twelve in the performance of such work as the First Presidency and the Twelve may place upon them...It is proposed that we sustain as assistants to the Twelve, the following named High Priests, who will labor under the supervision and direction of the First Presidency and of the Twelve..." 111th Conference, May, 1941; Imp. Era, p. 269.

"It is the duty of the traveling high council (Twelve) to call upon the Seventy, when they need assistance, to fill the several calls for preaching and administering the gospel, instead of any others." D&C 107:38.

Bear testimony to the truthfulness of the foregoing; close with prayer, and leave a copy of Authority and Message 12.